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Ethanol & the EU

Discussion in 'Vintage' started by Borgo Panigale, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Not sure why the EU is being blamed for anything in this thread. Here in France we CAN buy E10 if we want, but most petrol stations don't sell it. I just use normal 95 petrol in the bikes and the microlight without any problems.
     
  2. All that has ever bothered me about Ethanol is its flamability. Petrol is a safer product, it can drip onto a hot engine manifold and will not combust - requiring a naked flame or spark to do so. Ethanol will self ignite at a lower temperature meaning that fires after a crash are now more likely. I know its not much, Ethanol @ 365 C - Petrol @ 400 C but its that slippery slope again. Anyone wonder why DVLA want a photo to remember us by these days?
     
  3. So where do you buy it from then?
     
  4. One of the minority of garages that do sell it?
     
  5. Petrol will explode, and sometimes blows up with great violence. Ethanol does not explode, it just burns with a relatively cool flame. In Speedway, methanol/ethanol was introduced as a fuel in place of petrol precisely because it is so much safer in the event of a crash.

    As regards photos, provided you have a passport the DVLA do not require an additional photo - they can just re-use the same image from your passport. If you want to travel and drive outside the UK, whether in Europe or elsewhere, you will need both a passport and a driving licence with photos in any event. Are you saying you would rather have a driving licence with no photo, which therefore could only be used within the UK?
     
  6. Damage to petrol tanks is only one aspect of ethanol. I had it happen and it was sudden and massive.
    Antother problem is carburetta damage. Ethanol is asidic and when two disimilar metals (Zinc alloy caruretta body and Brass jets etc) are imersed in it there is an electrolitic action that can destroy the carburetta/s. On a vintage/classic bike that can be an insumountable problem if you try to keep your bike original.
     
  7. It may help to clarify a few things. First, ethanol is not acidic - it is neutral. However if the ethanol is not anhydrous (which it usually is not in fuel) it is found in conjunction with water. Water is not acidic, but the water in fuel often contains some dissolved salts. The salts are also not acidic, but ionic salts can promote corrosion. That is perhaps the problem being referred to here.

    Actually petrol without ethanol can also contain water and salts, which can likewise promote corrosion, and that has always been a problem especially with old bikes.

    If anyone encounters a specific problem with particular components (fuel tanks, taps, pipes, injectors or carburettors) on specific bikes which is caused specifically by ethanol, it would be interesting to hear about it. It would be worthwhile discussing what can be done to deal with it. By contrast, vague half-baked ill-informed whinging about the EU is not interesting at all.
     
  8. Exactly

    Oh, I don't know.
     
  9. look on the bright side of ethanol, after it has eliminated all old rebuildable vehicles off the road Euroland can sell us cheap throw away cars with a sub 7 year lifespan and create demand for their car factories and create jobs, this will sort out the EU's employment problems and provide a miracle cure for the ailing euroland economies
     
  10. Ban combine harvesters I say. Think of the jobs that would be created.
     
  11. and how much safer narrow country lanes would be for balsting around on bikes
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. so what are we recommending here that I buy a aluminium replacement tank for my 900ss which has a fibre glass imola tank?
     
  13. Use higher Octane Premium fuel instead?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Spot on.
     
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  15. Alcohol is a very good fuel; used it for many years in a supercharged 1936 ERA I used to race, though Methyl alcohol rather than Ethyl alcohol. Used to get 150 bhp per litre from a 70 year old pushrod engine. Consumption was a bit of a problem. Driver and car. Have contemplated adding to the Hailwood rep but rejecting is a bit of a pain. High Latent heat of evaporation ( as long as you get enough in) makes for a cool charge and high volumetric efficiency. Just you end up drinking a lot of it...
     
  16. [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Well after reading this I thought I would have a nosey on Google which seems to imply the higher the ethanol content the fewer mpg you will get, does that mean we will pollute the atmosphere more.
    Maybe its all to promote the use of diesel bikes till they make them as fast as petrol bikes then what will they do ban bikes all together ?
     
  18. I prefer to drink my alcohol :)
     
  19. My streetfighter has a plastic tank and I am now wondering the same thing will it need replacing.
     
  20. haven't Googled for the latest Ethanol update as it's too depressing but from memory up to 5% has been deemed allowable without declaration in UK so far? - likely to be found more in 'supermarket' fuel - nearly everyone I know with any concern sticks to Shell as a first choice. As far as I know there is still no set date for introduction of 5% or 10% 'across the board' yet, a date 'set in stone' is all I would be worried about. Hopefully an expert will add some accurate detail now. An 'O' ring rep told me recently that suitable replacements are being made more widely available in preparation (which is a start...)
     
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