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848 v 999 engine

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Lucazade, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Got couple of questions about those engines. Most is not for me but some might be hand to know for future idea I have.
    Some info was lost with demise of you know what while rest I can not find now.

    1. First off all I can not find what is the weight difference between 848 and 999 engine. When 1098 arrived they said engine is lighter and even quoted by how much over 999 engine due to new process of making cases. If anyone has that figure even 1098 v 999 as that will give good idea.

    2. Second power output of both engines is about the same stock is it not?

    3. I know you can get big bore kits for both engines and the same high comp pistons. I remember that 999 big bore was bringing it to 1098. Is there a big bore kit for 848 and what CC would you get?

    4. Could you use 999 injectors on 848 engine or would it be better to use 848 injectors and if so could you link them to 999 loom?

    Idea is to get a 848 engine, big bore/high cop piston it and dump it to 999 frame as it looks so much better. Airbox would stay unchanged or slightly modified to accommodate 848 injectors.
     
  2. Why do I get the feeling I'll die before other people grasp the concept of engine torque and that HP is a simple calculation (or a sauce!)!

    The 848 produces 61 ft/lb torque .... the 999 produces 76 ft/lb ........ so on the same bike/weight, the 999 engine will out accelerate the 848 .... the hp figure is only useful in working out which engine will be able to attain the higher maximum speed ........ gives no idea how long it will take to get there. The only real benefit of an 848 engine is it's approx 30lb lighter, but on a total package inc rider of over 500lb, it shouldn't make up for the shortfall in torque to a 999.

    Unless top speed is the be all and end all, I'd always go for engine that gives the better torque, especially over the wider rev range.

    If you've got a few hours spare search on the interweb for 'engine tuning area under the curve' ....... may explain why my poor little 'underpowered' 70 hp 900SS gets from one set of lights to the next quicker than the '130hp' 600cc crotch rockets ......
     
    #2 Littlebert, Apr 30, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
    • Like Like x 5
  3. Someone is having bad day eh? I did not ask for BHP but general power figures to compare so BHP/Torque/Max rev.

    Also some people prefer rev happy engine over torque lazy engine in sports bikes. Me included I much prefer 749s over 999.



    Re weight saving that is not much was thinking it was more?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Sorry Luca, I'm always having a bad day :biggrin:

    This is decent site for dyno charts ..... SportBike Dyno Charts - Sport Rider Magazine
    Gives a good idea of how different bike engines make their power so you can choose which to use as a basis for building one with a lazy wide spread torquey output or a peaky revvy one ..... personally think the 999 (998?) engine is excellent at giving the best of both!

    ....and the weight saving is probably a bit less than 30lb - the engine sidecastings/clutch etc are only about 13lb less than previous models.

    Hope this is more helpful !
     
    #4 Littlebert, Apr 30, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  5. Can an 848 Loom be fitted directly to a 749/999 engine? Was thinking about using an 848 dash on the project.
     
  6. yes and a 1098 1198 which incidentally can be exactly the same loom……..especially the dtc one….however you need to look at what dash and cpu you are using…..obviously the 1098 etc dash is a straight fix..
     
  7. I was planning on a re-flashed DP ECU or the one we already spoke about. I don't understand what you mean when you say the 1098 is a straight fix. You're implying that an 848 dash is not?
     
  8. In short you need to match Dash to ECU as you know however I beleive 1198 is not streight match due to DTC functions so a DTC ECU is needed for that ..... unless one would try to flash 1098 dash software on 1198 dash .... Hm


    Am I right Andy?
     
  9. I could use the Ducati Performance ECU I already have and have it set up to play nicely when I'm having the engine mapped? I recently found out that they can do a decent job of a re-map on a standard ECU without having to buy a Motech or similar. I was under the impression that as long as the ECU was set to 'immobiliser off' and the re-map was to suit the engine, things would be tickety boo?

    DTC wasn't in my plan so I think a standard Dash and loom would be suitable. In fact while we have been talking I have bought a 1098 loom for 60 notes off ebay so we shall see.
     
  10. That is correct 848 loom, 848/1098 dash and 848/1098 ecu re-mapped will be no problem. Maybe a DTC dash/ECU would be a bit challenging but maybe not worth asking that before you start purchasing parts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Torque is the lever. bhp is the rate at which this lever can be used. Without the lever......

    I love torque. Great big fuck off dollops of it. You can keep your top end. Acceleration and grunt is the real buzz.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. I don't want to be flogging a dead horse here...

    Will a 749 with a 1098 loom need a 1098 ECU or are they all the same, with different flashed software?

    There isn't a lot of info available on a google search, just lots of people giving half info. I've completely given up on ducati.ms. It seems to be a bunch of people bragging about their bikes but no actual knowledge of how to maintain or ride them.

    For future google search people and for myself I'm looking for the answers to the following questions Some answers already provided:

    1) Will an 848/1098/1198 loom go on a 749/999? - YES

    2) Will 848 clocks work with an 848/1098/1198 Loom? - YES , if it's a DTC loom it would need a DTC dash. The ECU will need the immobiliser turned off.

    3)Is it a straight swap? Unplug old loom, plug in new loom - YES

    4) Does a newer dash need a newer ECU? Will an 848 Dash work with a re-flashed 749 ECU? - YES
     
    #12 pingping010101, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. mate nothing is completely straight forward but yes it will fit the neutral light the oil pressure the tps are all in the same place there will be some crap in the way like the flapper valve the co2 sensors but they can be eliminated anyway…
    might need a bit of shaping to get the battery connected…..
     
  14. The actual work isn't being done by me, but I want to make sure I'm not asking for the moon on a stick with some of my requests.
     
  15. I'm sure your guy has the experince, looking at some of the work he does, its just a question of cost v benefit
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. who you got doing the job mate...
     
  17. Madasal isnt it?
     
  18. It is doable.

    For me it is simple few points. We know 848/1098 dash, loom, ecu will work together.
    We know you might need flapper valve/o2 sensor eliminator or actual sensor. You can disable them later on by flashing DP ECU software but if sensor is not there you will have permanent EOBD light. Saying that bike will run.

    My only question, except cost and benefit unless it is done cause I like lit like that, is will the injectors/TPS of 999 engine work with 848 loom and software IE are they the same? I have no idea there and that is your main point of interest now as if they do not you will need 848 or 1098 injectors and ......... so it goes.
     
  19. tps and ink same connection different spray pattern thats all...
     
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