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600/750/900 Shared Engine Parts.

Discussion in 'Supersport (1974-2007)' started by Nasher, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. It’s off – Whoopee.

    Once I discovered it was on a taper I knew my 3 leg puller should be up to the job.

    I turned up a spacer to match the end of the crankshaft and the puller bolt to get maximum surface area contact and reduce any damage I might do.

    I wound the puller up nice and tight then gently warmed the gear up with my blowtorch whilst standing well clear.

    It came off with hell of a bang and ended up half way across my workshop.

    Nasher
     
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  2. Whilst I was sorting the primary gear out I measured the bores a bit more accurately.

    Both are spot on 94.9mm.

    So:
    94.9/2 = 47.45mm Radius
    A = π r2
    3.14159 x 2251.5 = 7,073.23mm2
    X stroke of 68mm = 480,984mm3
    X 2 pots = @962CCs

    Better make sure I get the fueling adjusted correctly, although I'm hoping that one investment along the long road ahead will be some nice flatslides.

    Nasher
     
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  3. Morning all.
    The crankcases are now split, and apart from one gear needing replacing in the gearbox I’m happy to say it’s just bearings and seals required internally.
    I’ve been round the usual circles with the main bearings, deciding if I should fit a very expensive X2TB spec bearing to the Primary gear side or an X2ETN. I’ve ordered an X2ETN as Moto Rapido assure me Ducati spec them now and they are more than good enough.
    When all the bearings and seals turn Up I’ll press them in and start measuring to get the 0.015mm sideways preload on the main bearings.
    Talking of which, Moto Rapido tell me the crankcase gasket, 400129330, is no longer available, and have quoted a Threebond ‘Goo’ instead, although I could order the gasket from Stein Dinse.
    What’s the experience of anyone who’s been down this route?
    Does anyone know which Threebond product is the recommended one?
    Being an old fashioned sort of bloke I like the thought of a gasket being in there with some sealant either side, but am prepared to go without if it proves better.
    The other issue with no gasket as far as I can see is making the shims on either end of the crankshaft and gearshafts thinner.
    Obviously I’m going to have to work these out again anyway as I’m replacing the bearings, but I’m more likely to be lucky with the existing thickness shims that were paired with a gasket from the factory.
    Thoughts anyone?
    Thanks
    Nasher.
     
  4. Way outside my comfort zone but it sounds like you're answering your own questions. Stein Dinse are pretty good to deal with, so no problems there.
     
  5. I left the centre gasket out - no problems. I used Threebond 1215, but would suspect any generic silicon gasket would work just as well.
    Only issue is the need to reshim, but based on my experience you'd have to do that anyway - as original, mine were significantly out.

    Sent from my P01M using Tapatalk
     
  6. Baines racing at Silverstone used to get the center (and timing case and clutch inner) gaskets made up. I was in a similar quandary to you when putting it all back together, and decided to go with the traditional method of putting a gasket in there. Of course, I had to measure up the cases and shim things appropriately. I had the luxury of a pair of brand new cases and bearings, and a new pair of JE pistons.

    IMG_0239%20small%20file.jpg
     
  7. Thanks for the input guys, I think as suggested I'd answered my own question, but was looking for some back-up.

    I'm going to order a gasket from Stien Dinse, get the new bearings in and start measuring.

    Turned up a set of bushes to go on a bit of 10mm threaded bar this evening so I can wind the new swinging arm bearings and seals in gently.

    Nasher.
     
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  8. I’m still in a quandary about the centre gasket.

    I did get hold of a tube of Threebond 1104, with the plan of going commando, but then took a better look at the insides of the crankcase and the gasket and realised that the gasket also baffles the sump side to side quite significantly.

    I ordered the last remaining gasket that Medina Italia had in stock for next day delivery, then got a call to say the one they had was damaged and that they’d have to refund my payment as it would be next Friday before they could get another one.

    Worryingly I’ve now measured the existing crankshaft shims that were fitted with a gasket and they are almost the thinnest available at 0.35mm, so if I don’t run a gasket I’m in danger of not being able to get shims thin enough.

    Anyway, last of the bearings I’ve ordered should rock up today, and I’ve got a supplier from work jacked up ready to press the old bearings out and the new ones in, at which point I’ll know exactly what I’m up against measurements wise.

    I’d imagine I’m going to end up ordering a gasket from Stein Dinse, but am waiting on a reply to my email to them asking what the difference is between part numbers 70010044A (18,00 €) and 400129330(7,79 €) which are both suggested for the M/SS900 crankcases.

    Nasher.
     
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  9. Why is this game never easy!

    One of the only pieces of kit I don’t have that I’ve often wish I did is a hydraulic press.

    My work contact has taken one look at the Ducati crankcases and declared he doesn’t want to go near them with a press as he’s worried about damaging them.

    I’ve phoned a couple of local ‘old school’ bike workshops and they’ve both said the same thing.

    So a couple of questions for those that have changed main and gearbox shaft bearings:

    How easy do they go in and out if I warm the cases up in the oven and put the bearings in the freezer for a day?
    Mrs Nasher is actually away this weekend so I’ll have the kitchen to myself!

    Do the steel sleeves around the main bearings come in and out with the bearings? Or do they stay in the cases whilst the bearings are pressed in and out of them?

    Thanks

    Nasher.
     
  10. When I rebuilt my Monster engine, I initially bought the 3 gaskets (centre & both side covers) but then used only threebond (gaskets have since gone BTW) obviously without gaskets the engine is tighter but since you're changing bearings anyway then it needs setting up. I can't imagine the baffling of the gasket is adding much?

    Ducati use threebond in place of gaskets now.

    Not sure if your want list from earlier is still valid? but if you need them I have some of the parts on there, need to check exactly what and what condition but from memory I should have; camshaft pulleys (both original and adjustable), oil pump & gear, belt covers (inner and outer), belt tensioners and possibly some rocker covers?

    If there's anything there you're still after I'll have a dig around the workshop...
     
  11. Thanks Dukedesmo.

    As mentioned I'm a bit worried the existing shims put in with a gasket are already some of the thinnest available, so without a gasket I may not be able to get them thin enough.

    I won't know until I've swapped out the bearings and can measure up.
    So plan for tomorrow whilst I'm supposed to be working is to try and find somebody who can press the bearings out and in before I resort to the freezer and oven over the weekend.

    I'm still looking for all the parts at the moment, so if you know how much you'd want for any or all of it, l'd be grateful if you'd message me via this site(Doesn't seam to called a PM here).
    The adjustable pulleys sound good.

    Thanks

    nasher
     
  12. I ended up biting the bullet and swapping out the bearings myself.

    I got the cases nicely warmed up in the oven, and left the new bearings in the freezer overnight.

    I turned up some large aluminium drifts to just the right size to fit the outer races, and recessed their faces so there was no chance of them contacting the inner races.

    They were a waste of time really, because the old bearings popped out of the cases with a gentle tap from a mallet, and the new ones dropped in with NO resistance due to the difference in temperature. They are nice and snug now though.

    Unfortunately Stein-Dinse have let me down with the Centre Gasket I ordered.
    I ordered it 10 mins after getting an email from them last Wednesday to say they had stock, then when I chased it yesterday they claimed to have a stock error and don’t have any.

    Nasher.
     
  13. Try Ducati Kamna; Tuning-Teile kaufen und Tuning Tips | Ducati & Aprilia-Tuning Kämna
     
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  14. Thanks Dukedesmo:grinning:
    I'll have a look, maybe cancel the other one if they say it will be too long.

    Did you have a chance to look for any of the parts you said you might have?

    nasher.
     
  15. Not had a chance to look yet as I've been busy this last few days and I'm going on Holiday on Thursday until the middle of August so it will need to be after that before I can sort anything out.

    But I definitely have some of the parts listed above as I bought an ST2 engine as a cam donor and although the 'block' has now gone I've still got many of the other parts, most of which are interchangeable with the air cooled 900.

    I'll get together a list of parts that I have spare and let you know, hopefully you're not in too much of rush?...
     
  16. Thanks Arquebus, sure I looked on Wemoto the other day and didn't find them.

    Nasher.
     
  17. So I'm feeling a bit stupid at this point.
    I didn't notice until last night that one of the pistons shown earlier in this thread is missing a ring, although the pistons, remaining rings and bores look like they've not run much.

    The guy I brought them from says they are Mahle parts and suggested I talk to Mahle or CA-Cycleworks where they came from.
    Mahle have been very unhelpful on the phone today, and really didn't want to help, just pointed me to their UK agent who only wants to know about selling full piston/ring kits for cars. CA-Cycleworks have said they don't sell them and pointed me at a company in the US who make custom pistons.

    I've been all over Mahle's website, and can't find any reference to them, so I'm thinking perhaps the guy who sold them to me hasn't remembered correctly, so not sure where to go next.

    Can anyone shed any light on what these pistons might be, or where I can attempt to source some rings?

    Thanks

    Nasher.
     
  18. If they are 944 pistons then the rings will be for 94mm pistons, like the ST2 pistons. You are bound to get something somewhere that wil fit, you just need to measure them. Sorry I cant help more. I stuck with JE 92mm high comps in mine.
     
  19. The bores measure 94.9mm which with a 68mm stroke gives a swept volume of 962CC,

    The pistons themselves measure 94.4mm diameter.

    I've heard of 966CC kits, perhaps they are actually that.

    Nasher
     
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