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998 Got Real Hot.. And Not Starting Now

Discussion in '748 / 916 / 996 / 998' started by flatairbag, May 9, 2016.

  1. Hi all,
    Took the 998 for a ride yesterday (massive temps here in the UK.. hit almost 24deg.. yep its no spelling mistake) and bike got hot.. really hot... usually runs at 80 on open A roads but was running about 100 on roads and off the scale in the towns. Went up Cat and Fiddle and back road back to Congleton.. She ran as usual but I did notice more Backfire on de-accell than usual. Then got stuck in massive traffic in Congleton and she heated up bad.. so did my ass.
    Cooled back down to 90-100deg on the open road again and then pulled into lay-by... cooling fan kicked in and after a few mins I turned the bike off for 5-10mins.
    Went to start her up again and the starter hardly ticked over.. after a couple attempts it was like all electrics were completely dead. Fuel pump primed but no go on the starter. Managed to push-start her and got home without issue. After about an hour to cool down the battery registered at 13V (2 years old) but no life in starting her. Put her on optimate last night.

    So as of now, Im concerned at the excessive heat the bike was running at and maybe ive melted some wiring.. its kinda acted like a flat battery but maybe a starter issue or even cooling sensor issue (if has one?). Checked again just now and starter button makes a noise but sounds like nothing turning.. just wizzing sound when hitting the button. The Rev Counter flicked up to about 6K during this time... Then after 3 attempts no noise at all.. Battery still showing 13.4V and headlights are working as usual.

    Any advice where to start with testing this out would be welcomed thanks. I know it sounds a contradiction.. but Im not too bad at hands-on bike jobs.. just actually no idea where some stuff is on my bike so any tips do diagnose and locations would be much appreciated thank you.

    Cheers for the help team
     
    #1 flatairbag, May 9, 2016
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  2. I had a very similar experience years ago on my 998, mega hot August BH - BSB at Cadwell ran really hot on the way worrying but fine, queuing to get in was a different story altogether horrendous :Rage: kept turning her on & off to try and cool down a bit (other bikes were dumping coolant :Bawling: all over) she was fine getting in and parking up. Came back at the end of the day switched her on all looked good but "click" nothing :( on & off fuel primed she was showing 12V but had definitely cooked the battery there was just no current available :Arghh: new battery and all was good, still on the same one at least 6 or 7 years later :upyeah:
     
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  3. Cheers for the reply Tobytyke.
    Ugg.. im feeling that queue (and heat!) as I read your post.
    Times like that you want 3 fans blasting away.
    So wait.. your battery was outputting good voltage.. but not when you wanted it to turn the starter motor over?
    What battery did you put in?
     
  4. Possibly your battery, if you have access to a multimeter put it across your battery when pressing the starter this will show if the battery is at fault if the voltage dives down under load.
    I had one showing 12.8 on my charger and under load when trying to start it dropped to 3.4.
    Steve
     
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  5. Thanks guys. Im thinking the same...
    I gave Rich @ MotoR a ring this avo to for some advice.. hes a great bloke and helpful with advice. I bridged the starter solenoid and still only a click with no start.
    So maybe optimate can show the battery condition as ok and headlights etc can work fine but the battery is poked enough to not start the bike over?
    Its a Yuasa YT12B-BS and only 2 years old.. maybe the -BS stands for Bloody Shit?
    Ill see if I can borrow a battery to test out
     
  6. its a hard engine to start especially with a weak battery and old OEM cables
    borrow a car batt and jump leads to see it it turns over?

    if it still doesnt start with good batt and shorted solenid, your starter motor is likely to be the problem
     
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  7. Could be that the voltage regulator failed when very hot, when you get it started check the charging voltage.
     
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  8. Yeah was showing 12V on the very nice man's tester but no cranking power (current) replaced it with the same type, nothing special it's a blue one :) can't remember exactly but I think it's a Dynavolt.
     
  9. I jumped from another battery this morning (tried both with the starter solenoid bridged and unbridged). All other electrics seem to work ok but no noise at all from the starter motor now.... Just a click noise from the solenoid each time I press the button.
    Battery voltage only drops from 12.97 to 12.65 when starter button activated.
    ?
     
  10. if you haven't already, upgrade your starter cables (either DIY, as I did, or contact @Exige for some ready made kit with discount for forum subscribers). that may help in the future for starting issues, but doesn't really cure your current woes.

    the volt drop at start is very low, which may indicate that you are not getting full battery volts to the starter - if you can use some jump leads to bypass the starter circuit, i.e. straight from battery +ve to starter motor +ve terminal, and from starter motor -ve terminal to any grounded point on the bike you may get a better reaction (i.e. good turnover, or bigger volt drop).

    if the above does go as postulated, then somewhere in your starter cct is a high resistance, be that solenoid, connections, cables. It would be a matter of fault finding each section of the starter system from there (e.g. disconnect the solenoid complete from the high current side, put a meter across the contacts and see what sort of resistance it gives when pressing the starter button).

    given it bump starts, then the alarm/immobiliser, if it has one, seems not to be the cause.

    again, for future, I believe somebody on here has used an early engage fan system (thermostatic switch that kicks in at lower temperatures), and some have a manual override to make the fans kick in at the flick of a switch - sensible mods for fair weather users (such as me and many Ducati owners)

    good luck in fault finding.
     
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  11. Yuasa are generally regarded as being probably the most dependable batteries out there.
    I'd also endorse the idea of fitting a cable kit when you get it up and running again. The oem cables are marginal when new and develop higher and higher resistance over time. Trying to start an engine via a high resistance circuit won't do any battery any good.
    How about disconnecting the starter motor cables and seeing if it will turn by jumping it from your spare battery?
    At least you could eliminate if the starter motor is at fault...
     
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  12. If you ran the fan for 15 minutes with the engine off then two things:
    It probably won't cool the engine as the water pump is not turning.
    It probably ran the battery down.
    Solution: jump start, and ride baby ride to recharge the battery.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. From what you say in post no 9, nothing when bridged across solenoid with a good battery and no voltage drop when pressing the starter button I would say you have a faulty starter motor. That is if all connections and cables to the starter are good.
    Steve
     
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  14. Yeah looks that way...
    Brand new Yuasa charged up and still only a click at the solenoid when hitting starter button.
    No sign of anything from starter motor when connected directly to battery.

    Did find today that the 40A fuse under battery was blown.. Not sure if this has happened during my testing or previous... Either way it's cooked.

    Geez those OEM starter motors are not cheap! Bugger
     
  15. Whip the motor off and dismantle it. Remove the alternator side casing (lean her over if you don't want to drop the oil) There's 3 Allen bolts holding the motor on 2 you'll see straight away the other is hidden behind the driven gear you need to rotate it till one of the holes in it line up with the bolt. There's a steel gasket 'tween starter and casing don't lose it. You can dismantle the starter to find out what's wrong with it, remove the end gear & undo the 2 hex bolts they hold the end caps onto the sleeve it should then come apart if your lucky it'll just be the brushes but if your as lucky as me the windings will have exploded :Rage:

    Starter motors they all look the same but they're not, I couldn't find a secondhand 998 one for love or money and bought a 749R one, bad move, it was too long and fouled the oil cooler pipe work, ended up making a hybrid one with the new windings and end cap and original sleeve and fixings so all good in the end but not as straightforward as it should have been :)
     
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  16. Cheers mate.. Very helpful info thanks.
     
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  17. Try wemoto.co.uk
    They list a brush set and also starter motors for some models. Prices seem pretty good to me.
     
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  18. Hi.. First of all thanks for the advice in diagnosing this issue.. Replies have been really helpful, so much so I had the confidence do the work myself, and glad I did as it's not a difficult job. Made up a small case pully tool and it was a good opportunity to changeout filter and fluids.

    I thought to post my findings here if it can help anyone in the future.
    Having got the motor off yesterday yes it was poked. Pic attached.

    Unfortunately not just a brush set fix (and the local alternator refurb shop says can't do anything with it) so will replace the motor.

    Thanks again for the support.

    (PS: anyone have the torque settings for the starter motor and crankcase cover screws?)

    image.jpeg
     
    #19 flatairbag, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  19. upload_2016-5-19_9-29-3.png

    upload_2016-5-19_9-28-18.png
     
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