Starting in Brazil and spreading through USA, Europe and most of the world a percentage of ethanol is being added to petrol. The purpose is to stretch mineral oil resources by adding renewable locally-produced components. In UK at the moment most petrol has 5% ethanol (sometimes including a small proportion of methanol). Typically fuel includes a percentage of water, and that water often contains salts (e.g. chloride ions). The ethanol or the salts may cause practical problems (such as unexpected weakness or corrosion) affecting fuel tanks, taps, pumps, pipes, carbs or injectors, although no other components are likely to be affected. New or recent vehicles should not have problems, unless the manufacturer has wrongly specified materials for components. That would be a warranty claims matter. An example is petrol tanks on some recent Ducati models in USA. The specifications of older bikes were settled without any expectation that methanol would later be introduced. If any particular components on particular models have been found to be affected, it would help others to share information about problems and cures. That is what this thread is for. There is a separate thread for discussing economic and environmental issues.
As far as I can ascertain, all seals and O rings fitted in fuel systems that are fabricated from synthetic materials are likely to degrade from the effects of ethanol.......the daft bit about this, is that it took manufacturers ages to come up with synthetic seals that are resistant to fuels and oils. Some 'automotive specialists' that I know are of the opinion that there is a massive can of worms about to be opened........and that many vehicles are likely to be affected, even modern ones. AL
have had issues of this problem on cars where rubber link pipes in the fuel system perish and degrade some have only lasted 1-2 years friend running a garage has come across quiet a few problems like this can of worms defininetly
When I said 'automotive specialists', I meant from the manufacturing side.......engines in particular..... AL
My Volkswagen clearly says 'No Biodiesel'. I just fill it at the pumps, maybe I should read the labels more carefully.
Since Brazil has been using ethanol in petrol since 1976, and most fuel there has 25% ethanol today, surely that can of worms was opened over 25 years ago. This is not really a novelty.
Ducati USA got served with a class action lawsuit for the tanks on the classic Multistrada. They're now replacing them over there when they warp. There's been ethanol in UK fuel for some time, but at the time of writing, super unleaded fuels largely don't have ethanol - except Shell V Power and Sainsbury's Unleaded.
According to Tesco's website, their top fuel ("Momentum 99") contains 3% methanol and 5% ethanol. Some fuel companies are shy about saying exactly what is in their products. Specifications - Product Benefits - MOMENTUM99 - Tesco.com
If methanol and ethanol are being added and the total quantity becomes too great (not sure on the exact amount.....possibly over 25%), there is a considerable possibility of holes being burned in pistons..... A drag racer piston after one good blast down the strip is a good place to see the effects........ I think normal fuels will eventually become more like diesel....hold a match to it, no burn......smack it with a hammer and it explodes. AL
I have been dealing with getting some 5 yr old european outboard motors to run on the high ethanol fuel in Brasil over the last year or so. They are common or garden yamaha engines, and we have taken advice from several sources including yamaha Brasil and yamaha UK. Top and bottom of it is that in the long term we are screwed. While we can get the things to run reasonably well short term, we have been told that the ethanol will eventually cause catastrophic failure, and that "no, yamaha cannot supply any kits to change out the weak link parts" The Brasilian contacts also recommended dumping any fuel over 28 days old due to the hygroscopic properties. This is my only experience with this stuff but it would tend to indicate that while new engines built to run it should be ok, you will have an interesting life with older machinery at best. On top of that, leaving the bikes standing a while will also bring us a shitload of other problems as the fuel breaks down. Bring back 4 star
I've contacted Radical Ducati with regards to the glass fibre tank I bought off them. They've had no reported problems from any sold worldwide so far, and there are plenty in the States. They coat the tanks insides with an acid proof coating, whatever that means?
We have been told to expect accelerated wear/breakdown of most seals, and probably mechanical failure within a couple of years. Whether this is intended to make us purchase new engines built for the ethanol, by scaremongering, is anyones guess. They have said that even their "local spec" kit will struggle to last with the increasing levels of ethanol appearing in Brasilian petrol these days.
Well, at least what you have been advised more or less confirms what I have been discussing with an acquaintaince in car engine manufacturing. AL
On 5 January I emailed Eurocarb Ltd (DellOrto sales) as follows: “I have some old motorbikes with Dell'Orto carbs. Now that most petrol in UK has up to 5% ethanol plus up to 3% methanol, may I ask some questions please? Are there any components in old Dell'Orto carbs such as seals, gaskets and O rings which are known to be adversely affected by ethanol? Are there any metal components known to be affected? Are newly supplied spare components today resistant to such problems? Many thanks ” Response received from Matt Cooperof Eurocarb Ltd 7 January as follows: “Hi, Dell'Orto say that the parts are resistant up to 10% ethanol, there should be no problems. If you are leaving the engine unused for more than a few weeks I would suggest draining the fuel from the carb. Best regards Matt Cooper, Eurocarb Ltd, Unit 2, Horseshoe Park, Pangbourne, Reading RG8 7JW” A bit vague, but essentially the answer seems to be no.
