Apple has as much contempt for their own customers as Clegg has for the electorate let it go Loz, let it go.
It’s not only people’s attitudes that need to change, the whole concept of logistics needs to be rewritten. Until electric vehicles can deliver (no pun intended) the mileage or you reverse the trend over the last 20 or 30 years for out of town shopping and regional distribution centres, electric vehicles will be the wind farms of the future ..... something that should have worked but never quite delivered on the promises. Andy
What argument is "not valid"? I have just set out eight facts, pretty clearly I thought. Do you disagree with any of them? Which ones and why?
OK treacle, I'll take it slowly for you. Now I won't start to pick apart the ridiculousness of your statement #6 which is blatanly incorrect. 6. Thus energy costs about the same whether you buy it as electricity or as petrol, and whether you store it in a battery or a petrol tank. My original reply to your post was based on your statement of "the cost of buying energy is about the same whether you buy it as mains electricity or as pump petrol" Now, my disagreement stems from the words "cost of buying" If electricity costs ME nothing or 1/4 the cost of diesel required to propel my vehicle the same distance as said electricity, then the cost of ME buying this energy is clearly not the same. You also added the caveat of "unless you make your own" What if I'm given it for free by my employer? You are are either confusing the cost of producing energy or the cost to the supplier of supplying said energy. So............Horeshit
An amusing attempt at a wind-up, but never mind. It is true that if somebody gives me free electricity, or free petrol, then it is "free" to me, because somebody else is paying the cost. If somebody gives me a motorbike FOC, then it is "free" to me, but it still has a cost, a worth, and a value. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Who pays the bill is not the topic under discussion here. The real point here is that whenever owners take energy on board their vehicles, the cost of that energy is about the same regardless whether it is in the form of petrol or electricity. The assertion that it is cheaper to buy energy as electricity is simply not true. The degree of efficiency or inefficiency with which various vehicles convert the energy they carry into motion is another matter entirely. We could move on to that discussion, if anybody wishes to.
Even if we go back to the horse and cart the planet is probably screwed by the methane output. We’re doomed I tell you, doomed...
Sorry Pete, I read in your previous post that you thought petrol and electric were on equal footing with regard to cost per mile. I took your 8 bullet points and explained why that wasn't correct. Post 1 and then post 2. ELECTRICITY is actually more expensive per kw/h THAN petrol however the amount of distance travelled per kw/h is a lot less with petrol than electric motors. Therefore your point in your first post is incorrect or at least muddled.
Given we do not have enough infrastructure to go fully electric and that will have to be paid for by someone, then yes electric vehicles true cost per miles could be a lot more than we are being told.
What I first posted was: "Not for the first time - the cost of buying energy is about the same whether you buy it as mains electricity or as pump petrol. Look it up. If you imagine energy is cheaper as electricity you are living in cloud cuckoo land, unless you make your own." That is neither incorrect nor muddled, if I may say so. I have not posted anything whatever about "cost per mile". This is about the cost of buying energy. I am rather offended that people claim to disagree with what I have posted, in the most insulting terms, but it then turns out they have not even bothered to read my point; what they disagree with is something I have never said. If we turn to the efficiency with which various vehicles convert the energy they carry into motion, petrol vehicles vary a great deal. And electric vehicles also vary a great deal. Some are far more efficient than others. Extravagantly unrealistic claims are made for vehicles of both types. False comparisons are commonplace. There is plenty of scope for debate. However it remains a fact that the cost of buying energy is about the same whether it is purchased as petrol or as mains electricity, and if anything petrol is a little cheaper. If it were not for the unequal levels of taxation, petrol would be vastly cheaper.
I'm sorry Pete, but you have lashed out without considering the context of your first post. Rob said £2 for 75 miles and you crudely lambasted him stating the Petrol and Electric cost the same per Kw. He didn't question that, just that is was cheaper than petrol per mile. Historically manufacturers of cars have lied about mpg, very famously in recent years. It was you who failed to get his point and then took us on a merry dance around the critical point of cost per mile. Get over yourself and try to read what others have put before getting out the speakers corner typewriter.
The amount currently raised by a mixture of fuel tax, and vehicle tax comes to just under £40 billion a year. Currently whilst people give electric car costs per unit/mile, they do so largely at current electric charges. To spend shitloads to build new power stations for all cars and vans to go electric and lose £40 billion a year is the stuff even Labour would not try and sell as costed. My worry here is that will just simply swap the revenue £40 billion straight from icr to electric vehicles but ALSO that ordinary domestic electric bills could double to pay for the investment needed to therefore increase domestic bills through the backdoor of your electric vehicle. The other concern is recycling, will we have the recycling process infrastructure to deal with these millions of batteries with an average of 6-7 years lifespans and what will be the disposal cost? Another thing I've not seen any long term studies on the sustainability of cobalt, one of the key needs for electric car batteries and that worries me if we build a whole new infrastructure based around electric cars without the projected length of availability for their main power supplies? dunno Lastly, VW investment into eletrickery makes sense based on the car units they shift but I'm not sure their Ducati division has sufficient sales to justify an investment in electrical bikes given many countries motorcycle sales figures https://www.motofire.com/2017/09/news/every-single-category-uk-motorcycle-sales/
