Hi Guys, hears my bad starting story.. I have an 07 MTS 1100S 26,000 miles - I have owned this for one year, it came to me with poor service history but, it ran fine with no issues and is in very good condition etc - during summer it ran perfect started perfect no problems - come September it struggled to start one morning, low cranking speed, gave it a week or so and it didn't improve, checked over the forums and made a few calls as you do. Changed the battery and checked over the terminal leads and earth, tidied them up and replaced the lead from the solenoid to the started motor, earth is good, also changed the starter switch as cheap, the new battery is a Lithium one. Cranking speed is now great. Cranking speed now excellent but still laboring to start say 4/5 full cycles then eventually fires up just, when it has fired up it runs perfectly without any trouble whats so ever, I can take it for a blast and runs perfect with no issues. The starting is worse when the engine is hot, most likely it will not start, tried the usual closed throttle and open throttle, a blip options but still no good. I have also changed the crank sensor - its now on the thinnest shim, I have tried all three shims. In addition I have changed the plugs and also got the ECU checked as the bike is decat and runs full termi's just in case - the ECU is perfect as its a DP one and all internals as they should be, I have reset the TPS via Ducati Diagnostics and changed the engine temp sensor "just in case" what I haven't done is change the starter motor, I here the starter motors have been on occasion the problem, what I have noticed is that the plug spark does appear weak when cranking and it appears the the sparking order is fluctuating (I think it should be sparking and its not), fuel gets primed ok but it just wont start, I have squirted some fuel into the cylinder and it fired up and off it goes great but not ideal!! A friend who is ex Ducati some years ago has been helping me and he isn't convinced the starter motor is the problem, we did simulate a bump start with a car battery but didn't get any sparks at the plugs at all. I guess the unusual aspect is that when she fires up "it" she runs beautifully goes extremely well with no issues, I just don't want to turn of the ignition. Meanwhile I am considering buying a new starter motor - Ducati say around £350 to replace, one major dealer has told me they think its the starter motor that's the problem as they have changed a few historically, and made reference too that "they were surprised that this was a fault but they appear to be dragging the power/volts down when they go bad", can anyone share any relevant thoughts and has anyone experience of buying a starter motor from ebay at around £185 looks the same but considerably cheaper...thanks for reading "help"
Thanks Bradders, TPS yes has been reset to 3.2 or that is where it defaults too, I think it has been reset about 4 or 5 times once the diagnostics is finished, the diagnostics used is an older Duc unit and shows no faults or sometimes a fault appears but the diagnostics clears it, what I haven't done is try and alter the tps setting, I think the ECU sets it at 3.2, "the joys" not sure if it can be adjusted via the diagnostics..
You can replace the starter motor brushes. Costs around £30 from ducati or equivalent from electrex. Used both in the past and found the insulator supplied by ducati fits perfectly but the electrex needed some mods. I get around 30k per set however my first set were knackered in 6k. Your looking for close to 1ohm resistance between 12volt feed and earth obviously with no power applied. Eventually one of the magnets glued to outer casing fell off. I purchased a second hand one from ebay for £40 and replaced brushes for piece of mind. I’ve purchased these brushes from Ducati Glasgow. They fit a whole host of Ducati’s including multis as highlighted on website. https://www.corsasbk.com/product/ducati-oem-brush-set-starter-motor-067050815-748/
Are you still on the original battery leads? Piggybacking a second set on my MTS cured starting, tickover and low revs behaviour. See Exige for the best.
Thanks Guys, I replaced the lead to the starter motor with a high quality one much better than original from Taylors electrical in Aberdeen I didn't replace the earth lead as it was good, to be honest they didn't have anymore high quality lead so I worked with the existing earth lead - I cleaned up the connections etc. Perhaps I should run a piggy back to see what happens. Meanwhile yes I thought about changing the starter motor bushes but thought just change the whole thing at £180 non Ducati one but apparently the same as the original, when it ticks over its smooth, good tick over and picks up straight away when opened up so just not sure, I have taken some heart from what I have read historically about the starter motor problem but have held back until sure or best I can be before I go for one, do you think its worth just getting the bushes rather than the complete motor? many thanks Paul
Without doubt I’d change the brushes if you suspect that’s the problem which it could be. Takes same amount of time to remove motor. My first starter motor lasted some 100k with three brush sets. Now on the second motor with two brush changes and that was a second hand motor purchased from eBay with no history. From my own experience running two Ducati’s from monster in 2004 used for touring and commuting and 1098 from 2007 post October until April the starting characteristics changed dramatically from starting on first press especially the 1098 to sometimes around 10 presses. It was amazing - would always charge battery but every year same effect. Put it down to a combination of humidity, temperature, battery and oil viscosity. Always slow cranking until around April with increasing temperatures. Bought the 1098 in July 2007 with instant starting until around October. Under warranty visited local shop which showed nothing. Started looking at 1098 forums and found similar symptoms in North America with cold weather. Beefing up the Cables might have helped but just got used to it. In the case of the monster it was used every day for commuting over 12 years which takes a lot from starting but still got 98k from sprag clutch. Again in the winter it could take several spin ups from the sprag but come April all fine again. Put that down to more effort to move the thicker oil. You mentioned problems starting when hot also. Experienced the same symptoms once and resolved with new brushes.
A complete kit for the starting circuit is a good idea even if it turns out not to be the cause of your immediate problem. See @Exige
Thanks Guys, yes the weather temperature it did cross my mind but the weather was inconsistent plus I have great cranking speed from the lithium battery, actually think that made starting worse, with the old battery it seemed to catch better, perhaps this is just "starting" to get to me! looks like the brushes can be removed from the starter motor in situ, does look tight though with the oil cooler pipes. Ok decision time brushes or new motor, getting 100k from a starter motor is brill perhaps at this stage just go for brushes if I can get them changed without starter motor removal...thanks, Paul
Hello i had many electrical problems with my multi 1000 , it went to the dealer and was "fixed" 3 times , eventually about 6 months ago while cleaning the earth at the front of the engine up again i noticed the cable looked a little faded. Went to halfords bought a £5.80 earth cable ran it from battery earth to engine earth and i've had no problems since. i use it as my every day transport through snow rain & road salt and fingers crossed it is still running fine. Spent hundreds at dealer fixing a £5.80 problem lol would recommend you try it first might be a cheap fix
Thanks Dean I will run a piggy back and see how it goes, that's great news about your starting issue not so good about getting there! the starter motor and its surrounding cables etc do appear to be a problem and maybe I'm looking to much into this, I will give it a go at the weekend and if the earth wire doesn't help the starter motor is coming off...Paul
Another possible cause for poor starting is the starter solenoid. My son had a 1098 that had been getting more and more difficult to start. Then one day the starter just failed to turn. It turned out to be the starter solenoid, which was operating but not making a good contact internally. He replaced the solenoid and all the starting issues were gone. I stripped the old solenoid and found that, although it had a rubber seal, water had been getting into it and had corroded the contacts. I cleaned it all up and put it back together making sure it was properly sealed and now have a spare.
Thanks Derek good info for me although I get great cranking speed especially with the Lithium Battery, I will see what happens this weekend once I try the piggy back earth and probably pull off the starter motor and get a wee look in!!I am going to examine all the connections again around this area and switches.....thanks for your input..Paul
Good idea to take the starter off. Although the brushes can allegedly be changed with the starter insutu I've never achieved it. With start off and dismantled you can easily change the brushes and clean up the commutator while you are in there. Pay attention to the orientation of the brush holder plate and the starter endplates. If you get it wrong the starter can rotate in the opposite direction.
Really don't see how a higher cranking speed could make starting worse rather than better. If you really do have an excellent cranking speed, that would suggest to me that you have a problem with the ignition side of things. Have you looked at the plugs - are you getting a spark ? Also, are you getting fuel into the cylinders? Can you smell fuel after cranking the engine?
Quote; “dealer has told me they think its the starter motor that's the problem as they have changed a few historically, and made reference too that "they were surprised that this was a fault but they appear to be dragging the power/volts down“ I have heard that from a dealer as well, no personal experience of it but that makes 2 Ducati experts saying the same thing.
If the cranking speed were low despite having a new battery and good leads and connections, that would point to the starter motor but the cranking speed is apparently excellent. The original post mentions weak spark, as well as starting more easily having been primed with fuel into the cylinder. I would be looking at spark and fuel, maybe a TPS reset as suggested.
