The irish times was typical remainer territory. If you notice the only people talking about colonial days are those who wish to remain. Almost all who want to leave, have confidence as a country that we are strong enough to go and make it work and once again take part on the world stage. Having confidence and pride in your countries ability is not colonialism, unless you are a remainer.
Which basically actually proves what the article was getting at in the beginning......FFS oh well I'll get my coat.
Would you kindly explain that to finm? He is confused on that issue. Oh wait, you're both on each other's Ignore lists. No worries.
How did it prove that? Royal. The article states we as English felt we had lost control so wanted to leave to get control back. The article completely forgets it was a U.K. vote that had the 4 nations taking part and yet the article would have you believe only the English voted. Even within the other 3 nations, Wales said out, over a third of Scots said out and 44% of Northern Irish wanted to leave too but again if you believe the article, Only the English voted. It's poppycock and not even project fear any more but project sulk. What is blindingly obvious, some of those who wanted to remain keep referring to Britain's past where as those who voted out, very much saw Britain's future
All just points of endless debate but the point being that we were sovereign the whole time so it's pointless nationalist rhetoric. I'm fiercely proud of my half English, half Scottish and all British and Cornish heritage and happily fly a flag to show it but this whole thing at best distracts from the real problems in the country and at worst leaves us in a shitty isolated place after it's all done.
Well I was born in Cornwall which is in England and my Dad is Scottish, and those places are all in the UK so I'm British as well....
Explain precisely how being a self-governing democracy makes us shitty and isolated? The imperial power here is not being sought or exercised by the UK. It is coming from the EU and its supporters and apologists. The EU is an authoritarian oligarchy, antidemocratic, repressive and fanatically expansionist. To suggest or believe the suggestion from others that wanting to escape that kind of rule denotes a desire for imperialism is bizarre.
I agree it would be nice when all this fuss is over and we can settle down but this isn't the first time the U.K. has been through major changes and yet we always pull through. No one is looking to rebuild the Rahj other than some remoaners it seems Republic of Ireland takes pride in it's country and it's called pride in being Irish, Scots take pride in their nation and it's called keeping the Scottish history alive but when it comes to brexiteers taking pride in the U.K. and believing we are a can do country, it's called colonialism. Them crazy liberal remainers. I wonder if I can ask something back? why do you feel the eu is so desperate to keep us?
Your view on what the EU is and what it represents is exactly the point they are making. We were, are and likely always will be a self governing democracy. Sure there are always plenty of people experiencing hard times who like to blame their own government or the EU but most people across Europe just think the British are living in a parallel reality with the whole Brexit thing and shake their heads at the ridiculousness of it. The EU is simply is a collection of countries that all govern themselves and feel that it is advantageous to co-operate on a bunch of things. If they don't want to become a bigger and closer entity with whatever frictions that comes with then they will not do so. Since the UK is possibly on it's way out then they are much more likely now to become closer integrated since we have no influence to counter that. It doesn't prove anything the Brexiteers argued about when we were still part of it, its just balanced differently because we are apparently not interested in having an influence on where Europe goes anymore.
its just balanced differently because we are apparently not interested in having an influence on where Europe goes anymore. And yet people who put up that Irish times article written by Professor Nicholas Boyle is Emeritus Schröder Professor of German at the University of Cambridge and is a well known remainer, claim we are seeking a colonialism return, I do wish people would make their mind up, one minute we don't care about influence and the next we want the Rahj again, No one is seeking to return to the Rahj, we've been there, done that. No one is saying we will refuse to work with the eu, quite the opposite but almost all of this is continual fluff to ignore what happened, the U.K. The founder of Modern democracy, had a U.K. democratic vote with the largest turn out in History and we are now moving forward whilst still moving forward within the world as a world player
There's the biggest problem for you. You're never going to get the other '50%' to agree that a simple majority referendum is acceptable democracy. Apart from the extremely dubious notion that a referendum is even a tool that should be used in the first place, it's an obvious point in hindsight that it should have been stipulated a 2/3 majority so there's no questioning the outcome when it comes to major long term changes to the constitution. It wouldn't have gone through because there are not enough people that want it to make it a safe change to make. It's not a change that it easy to go back on a few years down the line, it's a change that will affect generations to come. To me it screams incompetence from David Camerons government. They were so sure the population would vote to remain that they didn't even bother dotting the i and crossing the t's.
I don't have to convince them, they all knew the rules before they voted and willingly took part in the game called democracy I saw no one objecting from the remainers side before the vote that a referendum was not the right way to do it? Well that's just plain silly. Hindsight often tends to be used by those who took part in something all sides willingly took part in and then one side lost. What next, no mp can be elected unless two thirds of their plot vote them in. What you are trying to do is say mum mum we lost mum , the system needs changing ...for the benefit of democracy of course and not because we lost. It's like going into the bookies placing a bet and then telling the bookie after you lost that you meant to bet on dogs not horses. You will always look to blame something or someone when you don't get your own way. I'll help you ALL parties voted on whether to have a referendum vote, the house voted yes let the people have a voice Both sides put their case with their own opinions and inputs but in the end it came down to what did that individual feel was right for them so they voted the result came out That is how we have done things for many many years, so much so our system has been adopted by most civilised countries because it works Now with all that history, ability to work and work for the masses, the best reason you can come up with to change the system is...you lost a vote
It is not how we have done things for many many years. We have almost no history of using referendums at all. If you'll allow me the luxury of cherry picking for dramatic affect: .....However, Clement Attlee refused citing ‘I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism.’ implying that referendums were a totally unknown and alien device to British politics. In March 1975 Margaret Thatcher also quoted Clement Attlee that referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues" as Napoleon, Mussolini and Hitler had exploited their use in the past.....
Sovereignty in actions as well as name. Do we want to support EU initiatives vs do we have to do we want to apply EU regulation vs do we have to. Stuff like that in my layman’s mind. Now, to get profitable and working trade deals we may end up HAVING to give some back, but we can CHOOSE which work for us and which ones we feel worthwhile.
Don't forget that aggressive and imperialistic country, Switzerland. Clearly a nation on megalomaniacal referendumists!
