British Indy: What Happens Now?

I love you fin, you're just that magical one step up from duke in such discussions

 

if you want, give me a minuet tho.

 

its more of a jig tbh.

 

There is a real plan.
It's to take the UK out of the EU and forge a path where we don't have to pay them for the privilege of selling to us,where unlimited and uncontrolled immigration doesn't lower the wages of the lower paid,and where we all don't pay a premium for imported goods because it protects EU manufacturers from fair competition.
It will also open the way for the UK to do our own tariff-free trade deals with countries who export goods to us and vice-versa.
They are the goals,how the UK achieves them is dependent on the other parties on the EU negotiating team.
The Tory party is made up of individuals just like every other political party,and those individuals have different opinions.Ignoring the differences and pretending they don't exist would be worse in the long term.Democracy must exist in parties as well as the real world outside Parliament.
My biggest beef is that these individuals of all parties were elected,(apart from the Lib-Dumbs),on a manifesto promise of upholding the referendum result,which was for the UK to leave the EU.There were wall-to-wall warnings from the Remain side as to what would happen,including leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market,and 17.4 million people chose to ignore the professional liars and vote Leave.
The correct decision as it happens,because every single prophecy by the remain camp has proven to be completely false,as has those of the IMF,the LSE and Uncle Tom Cobley and all.
There is no evidence to even imply that their future claims will be proven correct.
They are not based on fact,but threat...the media portray Corbyn and the EU as some kind of academic behemoths able to predict the future like Greek Gods.
But they are nothing of the kind,just like Judges they are human beings,not blessed with any special power or wisdom,and probably unemployable in any other field of human endeavour.
Making oneself wealthy by dipping into the unwilling taxpayers pocket is not a character trait I admire,no matter what the uniform,title,or apparent power the criminal has stolen.
Tax avoidance dealt with by the EU? Have a little look back at the sweetheart deals various EU apparatchiks have done for multi-nationals in the past,and then reassess your statement.
A little lesson in economics for you:the scarcer the resource,the higher the price.
Why do you think train drivers earn so much? Because there are so few of them.And train drivers like that,it keeps the hoi-polloi from applying willy-nilly and then the new drivers telling the railway companies they'll do the job for less.
Same goes for nurses,policemen,the fire brigade,you name it..instead of huge colleges turning out thousand of all of them,and then letting market forces decide the salaries for all the different areas of the country,there is a constant pressure to limit the number of applicants to make sure there is a shortage,and keep the wages up.
You think they are badly paid because they never stop shrieking about the money,but the public sector in this country is far more expensive for the taxpayer here than in most European countries.
Once upon a time policing/nursing etc were working class occupations,now you need a bloody degree to be a nurse or to be considered for promotion in the police.
Why is this? Because once again the haves want to take over the respectable occupations once available to the have-nots...and then when they get it,they drive the price up by raising the education bar to keep the have-nots out,then want more money,then you get fewer policemen...yadayadayada...call it socialism,call it the public sector,when it's the taxpayer coughing up no price is too high...

But no one gives a frig about the lorry drivers,the shop staff,the farm workers,the people at the bottom who have nowhere to go now..take a look on the M20 and see how many British trucks there are or British drivers,but no one gives a toss because the goods on the back are a penny cheaper if a Pole drives it,(and the child benefit naturally goes a lot further in Poland if he's driving for a British firm...)
Wages are being undercut by uncontrolled immigration from both the EU and outside the EU...just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And by the way,both ways on the train under the channel there was one English person in the truck drivers travel carriage.
That was me.
Putin isn't interested in this piffling little country and whether we are in or out of the EU is probably a source of amusement.
If you haven't been to Russia I suggest that you go there and see just how BIG and rich in resources it is...they could swat us like a fly if Putin so chose.
People who voted out have the age slur fired at them endlessly.This is because the modern curse is that young people,(enlightened by a small clique of left-leaning educationalists),are smarter than mature people who were educated by people who left their politics at home,and who have years of experience to look back on and learn from.
Your folks obviously relied on their experience and not the computer projections and bullshit of people who actually know nothing but look good on television.
That decades of experience is what we relied upon when making our voting decision.It's not marching blindly,it's marching with all of that knowledge we've acquired.
It's a bit like Climate Change...those of us who have learned to read can look at all of the data from core samples going back millions of years,and if they say the Climate has been like this hundreds of thousands of times before,and that CO2 levels were thousands of times higher than now,and that in those times the earth was more green and fertile than it is now...well,we don't ignore it in favour of taxing the poor,put it that way.
There is an old saying: "when you are stuck in a deep hole,stop digging".That's what the EU is..a deep,terrible hole that will never stop getting deeper...but we are only the first to say enough is enough,there are millions in the EU also seeing the light.
The EU is a scam perpetrated on the war-weary millions by cunning criminals.T
The media wail,"right-wing-populism",because they cannot yet face facts-wait till Unilever see their profits threatened and start cutting their TV advertising.
I'm not accusing you of being a raving Remoaner,but the fact is the plan,(and all it's ramifications,both possible positive or possibly negative),is both clear and obvious,as is the refusal of the EU to negotiate in any way shape or form.
Nothing can help those who refuse to see what is outstandingly plain to millions of others.
Btw,Thatcher might have been wrong about some things but she tried,(and succeeded),to encourage social mobility...and I speak from experience.
That's the thing with experience...everyones is different,and you can't unlearn from it.

 

At the end of the day the Tories will do what is right for the Tory party. Not what’s best for you, me or Britain.

I’m amazed anyone thinks differently.

 

its not that hard a question is it?
James Kelly‏ @JamesKelly 2h2 hours ago




That was fascinating. The Prime Minister was asked the simplest and most un-tricksy of questions by Ian Blackford - does she still regard the four nations of the UK as "equal partners", as she did in 2012? She looked perturbed and very deliberately avoided saying "yes". #PMQs

 

If there were 4 equal partners, England would have a devolved government to be funded by the U.K. too would they not?

 

yes and no.

 

Capitalism will continue? of course it will and I didn't say it wouldn't.
self-driving vehicles? Do not make me laugh...if they are so good why are vehicles that travel on tracks and nowhere else,that only stop at predestined points and travel at certain time NOT FUCKING AUTOMATED??? Because the public won't stand for it,that's why.And because train driver unions are too powerful that's why.And because fucking idiots that are too stupid to be in control of a pencil sharpener want to be seen as equal with people who have genuine,but currently sneered at and derided,skill.
The Gig economy is a stupid media term for what used to be called taking control of your own destiny.Being self-employed and working only when there is work is the norm and has been for many years.
Trying to stamp it out by bleating that the workers don't care for it is complete and utter bollocks-there are more people who choose it for it's advantages than who bemoan it.
And those who bemoan it should get a job in ToysR Us or some other crappy no-future establishment where the hours are fixed,the wages are low,and it looks like a shit business model that will see them out on their ear shortly anyway.
The ones you see blubbing on TV will never got the extra mile,never work the extra hour,never ride to Newcastle in the snow on an MZ250 at 8 o clock at night because the controller is up against it and can't find cover in a van.
I have,it paid well and the controller was eternally grateful...which meant I earned most because I worked hardest,and that is why those with their lazy arses in offices and the Unions hate the self-employed...those who graft not only get more,they show the lazy bastards up as well.
Ah,the typical response of the Remoaner...ignore the facts you don't like and pick on a tiny detail you can disagree with,in this case,the Polish.And even mentioning the word begets the other one,"racism".
I've employed a couple of Poles.Lovely blokes.I've also employed Englishmen,Irishmen,Dutchmen,and the odd German.All good when they do their job,all had relatives who fought for their country,all would probably be offended by your intimation that even mentioning where they come from is,"racist".
You really are showing your true colours now mate,I'm thinking you ARE a rabid Remainer...racism my arse.
I could have said French,Spanish,Hungarian,anyone...the thing is,they are not "races",they are from different,"nations".
There is only one race,that is "the human race",and the same percentage of arseholes exist in all nationalities regardless.
Poles fought the Germans because their country had been invaded by the Germans.The Canadians fought the Germans too,as did the Americans,the Dutch,the Russians...so your point is what exactly?
It's like shooting fish in a fucking barrel.
Right,trucking and the Polish(but it could have been anyone from eastern Europe):
There once,until a few years ago,existed a system in Europe called,"cabotage".
Basically it meant that any haulier from the EU could deliver into another EU member country,and could load up and go to another country.
A foreign truck was not allowed to,for example,load in Bedford and deliver to London, if they were not from the UK.And the same went for a German in Poland or a Hungarian in Italy.
In and out yes,to and from in the same country,no.Still happens in some countries outside the EU btw.
Basically it protected domestic hauliers from UNFAIR COMPETITION from LOW-WAGE,LOW VEHICLE STANDARD countries.
The the EU start meddling.
First,they give vast amounts of EU taxpayers money to eastern European Hauliers in order to bring their fleets up to standard.
Those eastern European hauliers pay very low wages and diesel is quite cheap so they immediately undercut the International hauliers who were carrying goods from their own countries into eastern Europe and vice-versa.
Not content with that,the EU then virtually abolished cabotage,(3 trips in 7 days),which means that domestic haulage from Berlin to Hamburg can be done by a Pole earning low wages and burning cheap diesel driving a truck that the EU taxpayer helped him to buy..at the expense of the German earning reasonable wages in a full price truck burning high tax diesel which helps to pay for all those lovely social services that the eastern European can enjoy but not pay for.
Even the Germans ain't going to stand for that any more,so they are trying to force all transport companies to pay German level wages while their trucks are on German soil.

The low paid/low skilled suffer as a result of uncontrolled immigration in many ways:
Low wages from cheap labour lower the wages offered.
Immigration boosts the cost of housing as there is a limited supply and increased demand.
The low paid worker cannot afford to bring up his family/pay his rent etc on the low wages caused by uncontrolled immigration,and therefore becomes a burden upon the welfare state.

Anglo-Saxon..wtf? who mentioned that?


Workers rights eh? you really should do some reading before you claim something mate:
"From the middle of the 19th century, through Acts such as the Master and Servant Act 1867 and the Employers and Workmen Act 1875, there became growing recognition that greater protection was needed to promote the health and safety of workers, as well as preventing unfair practices in wage contracts"
The eight-hour day movement or 40-hour week movement, also known as the short-time movement, was a social movement to regulate the length of a working day, preventing excesses and abuses. It was started by James Deb[citation needed] and had its origins in the Industrial Revolution in Britain, where industrial production in large factories transformed working life. The use of child labour was common. The working day could range from 10 to 16 hours, and the work week was typically six days a week.[1][2]
Robert Owen had raised the demand for a ten-hour day in 1810, and instituted it in his socialist enterprise at New Lanark. By 1817 he had formulated the goal of the eight-hour day and coined the slogan: "Eight hours' labour, Eight hours' recreation, Eight hours' rest". Women and children in England were granted the ten-hour day in 1847. French workers won the 12-hour day after the February Revolution of 1848.[3] A shorter working day and improved working conditions were part of the general protests and agitation for Chartist reforms and the early organisation of trade unions.


It's a big picture mate,you should really try looking at it.
The devil is in the detail,and there are plenty of counter arguments that can be made against Brexit without being pedantic and pulling the,"racism",trigger.
Oh yeah,democracy...funny how you think it's a good thing when it's all the other countries,but a bad thing when it comes to you accepting it over here.
Funny that.

 

The same could be said of the politicians who said, don't worry, it's only a trade agreement, it will never be a superstate