Regardless of in/out ... the whole negotiation to me seems to be a mess. Apart from the Irish border question rearing its head... which was when? Was it half way through the process? It seems Gibraltar has been swept under the carpet, and if the Spanish foreign minister is to be believed, the airport has been built partially on the Spanish side?.. there just seems to be a lot of gaps that the government don't seem to be filling in? This whole "cards close to your chest" negotiation is rubbish, sometimes you have to play a few to flush out the winning combination.
The biggest problem is politics in our own country getting in the way of a good deal, there are too many groups undermining the governments position and the EU can see this on a daily basis, although it will never happen I know but it's time the MP's got together and allowed the government to have a stronger negotiating stance and start telling the EU unless they stop being so awkward we will be leaving with no deal. Everyone keeps saying it's only 1 year until we leave and the government is getting no where but we are working to the EU's time table, it's they who are holding things up not us. Steve
The negotiation was always going to be messy no matter who is doing it. Primarily because the eu hope to put enough barriers in the way that brexit is ditched. The Irish border issue is not so much an issue at all. The U.K. government has said outright that any border will not be the hard border of old i.e. manned by army and police etc. They have also said to the eu, you do what you want to do on your side but we will not be having that out of date hard border style on our side. If you look closely, the eu are the ones inferring that the old border style will come back and not the u.k. I believe the Spanish/Gib airport thing is the Spanish saying a bit of outlying land of the airport perimeter was never awarded in the Utrech agreement. It's wise to notice the "claim" and it is just a claim at an opportune moment for the Spanish, is at brexit time but the Spanish know not to rock the boat too much as Gib is a major employer of Spanish people in that area. As to the Spanish can veto the deal, this is nothing, as any of the 28 countries can veto the deal so it isn't anything special. It would seem there are two reasons for keeping all close to the chest till the last minute, One, the eu are very much hoping the enemy within can do the damage for them and two the eu are not disclosing that much either so it would seem that both sides are comfortable because as they have both said, nothing is agreed till it is all agreed. Sometimes we are so busy beating up our own government that some forget the eu are a player in this too and have more to lose than we do. I've said for some time once this is done that whoever takes over from Junker, will insist once brexit is done, that a new rule will be applied to say that any country leaving the eu will go straight to wto, as though it is a punishment, which it would be for the two thirds who take out more than they put in but for countries like the U.K. that are financially strong, going to wto will be a huge benefit. What some keep forgetting is that for us, many see it as us versus the eu, for the eu comissioners it is more about how do we stop others leaving and if you check the european press regularly as I do, you will see the eu has got an awful lot of issues and issues about to arise, far bigger than brexit.
The trouble is the EU's politburo doesn't want a deal. It doesn't want the UK to leave for various ignoble reasons. It wants our money for a start. We're the second largest net contributor to central funds. It wants to maintain the free movement intravenous syphon on our labour market which taps into the UK's disposable income and hoses it around Europe. It doesn't want to see a successful highly competitive, low tax, pro-enterprise independent UK on its doorstep sucking global business out of an over-regulated, protectionist and inward-looking EU whose share of global trade is already in decline. And most of all it doesn't want other EU captive states to follow our example and seek independence for themselves, because then the whole sorry edifice crumbles and the gravy train hits the buffers. With this in mind, Barnier's job is to ensure at all costs (literally all costs - the life chances of the citizens of Europe are expendable when it comes to the furtherance of The Project) that a deal never happens and the UK remains in the EU with reduced powers of influence and an even bigger membership bill. Therefore it doesn't matter how Mrs May plays her cards or how close she holds them, she shouldn't be sitting at the table in the first place. Whatever proposals the UK government comes up with, however sensible, creative and accommodating they are, they will be dismissed out of hand on the gamble that ultimately Theresa May will not dare walk away and will cave in and hand the UK over as a powerless colonial possession of an artificial European state. The fact that she's caved in to every demand so far has only encouraged this view. Ultimately we will leave the EU but someone else will do it and they will do it far more ruthlessly than would otherwise have been necessary unless the May government finally grows a pair, withdraws the £39 billion ransom payment, invokes WTO and walks. Then the unholy inner senate of Junker, Barnier, Verhofstadt et al will fall and the imperialists will be replaced by people who do actually have the interests of Europe at heart, real negotiations can start and we will get a positive and meaningful deal.
Unless you believe that no deal is the worst possible scenario, and that the governments aim is to leave with no deal. No doubt that there are elements in the Conservative party that do believe this to be the best result. I don't accept the idea that the EU are the sole cause of the delays, despite the Mail & Co shrieking this at every oppourtunity. Mays disasterous election wasted a good few months! It takes two to make a deal, and both sides will compromise to achieve this, if negotiating in good faith.
It's also worth mentioning that Junker retires as eu comissioner next year and Barnier is posturing to get the job. If he could sink individual countries within even the eu and get away with it to save the eu project, he absolutely would. And for those who keep saying this is all about the conservatives, I think you sometimes forget just how many non tory supporters, voted for brexit. A good deal of them were traditional Labour supporters, not forgetting Jezza who has a life on record as hating the eu.
Bear in mind that whilst the EU is pretending to negotiate but isn't really prepared to deal ... ... it is imperative that the UK Government is seen by the public to be attempting to reach a deal with the EU - even if it doesn't want one. Imagine the headlines if May said, now, with a year of negotiations still to go, "No, we are no longer seeking a deal". She wouldn't see the day out as PM. It's questionable whether the Tories would still be in government by the end of this year. The faux hysteria of the media and the fantasy world that Remainders seem to inhabit would not allow it. No, the "negotiations" are all about appearances. Both sides must be seen to be prepared to negotiate. That is very much the primary consideration. The credibility of both sides hinges upon that sole fact. The question of a deal, or no deal, at the end of the two year period fades into insignificance compared to that.
'Them and us'. Another one of the classic division tactics used by politicians who have completely run out of ideas.
brexit? what is this brexit shit all about? something to do with baby boxes? thats all we are getting up here the now.
fug knows, i dont watch the news or read the papers, i bought some fuel the other day, every headline in the news stand had something to do with the dangers of baby boxes?, on 24/7 on BBC R scotland too, i can only assume its brexit related, maybe something to do with the Russian poisoning or Syria maybe?
I don't want to speculate in the big forum what the dangers of baby boxes might be. I have a few ideas though. After Brexit, I can assure you than none of my worst fears over baby boxes will be a problem.
me too, i think it might just be some kind of divert technique they're using. surely they aint that dangerous, do they roam the streets hunting in packs or sumit?
They contain babies, which end up costing you every penny you earn up until the time they have grown up and left home?
I picked up my baby from the hospital, bit harsh up north if they are sending them out in boxes. I suppose it's down to the individual midwife and how they interpret "delivering babies" ? dunno
aww feck, now that the destinations are limited for the average kid, i guess the lil fuckers will never leave
The destinations have always been limited, fin. That's the nature of ability and potential. I blame the parents.
you got a Burberry cap to go with em? are they blast proof? will they burn in the event of a nuclear attack? if not, no thanks. and besides, at 12 the wee man probably stands head and shoulders over yah all ready.
Aye, the lad will be at the height of his mental faculties now, too. All downhill from here, he'll be technically brain-dead by the time he's thirty. Runs in the family, so it does.
