Yep, mugs game. Suppose you are inferring that the EU and UK government are playing poker right now? Does not say much about either side.
Positioning oneself advantageously for future negotiations is pretty standard practice, don't you think? Brexit will be used for some time to come as an opportunity/excuse to try to gain the high ground in future deals ... but that doesn't mean the high ground is a given, for either side.
Huzzah : Team Rat https://news.sky.com/story/rats-dri...eorgia-in-worlds-largest-rodent-cull-11364731 Don't ask me why
JB, this is what gets you into trouble as you are fixated like most extreme remoaners, on them and us. Look up The Iran deal ban today. Airbus invested shitloads and will now lose a $19 billion contract in Iran. In the last 18 months many european companies invested in Iran and now will end up having to pull out and lose that or face sanctions in the U.S. through breaking sanctions. Same with French company Total oil $5 billion. PSA Citreon/peugeot were going to build a factory there. If extreme remainers looked beyond them and us and further than the end of their nose, they might just see a world that is changing and not in a always good way and because we are not going to be tied to the eu, we will avoid going down with it https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...usinesses-affected-us-sanctions-iran-55037149
But noobie - Trump bad, EU good. How did you manage to forget that? It's so painfully, stupidly simple, anyone can grasp that.
i'l show you mine noob, whats your source https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/trumps-act-of-american-hubris/ still cant see how being out the EU makes us more powerful with all this power play going on, but you know, EU bad, the rest of the big players good.
Sorry fin, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't revisit the thread till just now. Oh prophet Murray said this In short, if the US fails to prevent Europe and Asia’s burgeoning trade with Iran – and I think they will fail – this moment will be seen by historians as a key marker in US decline as a world power. If you are a half glass empty kinda guy with a trump dislike, as Murray is then I would expect the comment but again he fails to see what europe is. Even now months after the italian elections, they have not formed a government and now even the two anti eu parties who said no to a coalition, are now openly discussing a coalition and telling their voters we can do better without the eu. Through various eu banking set up's Italy is the domino effect financially for the eu and the eu know it. Germany, once the powerhouse of europe, has been fragmented by the damage to Merkel and the loss of key departments to coalition partners so in steps Macron, the queen is dead long live the king. However, being an ex Rothschild banker and ex economics minister of the kicked out Hollande government, he is trying to push through reforms of their state run life that is seeing a real possibility of another election due to his very unpopular plans. The eu project itself is financially in trouble with loans through the ecb and imf placing the project in a pickle that losing the U.K's direct and indirect contributions are looking unlikely to be filled. That doesn't even take into account the Visegrad group or the internal fighting with the comissioners taking countries such as Ireland, Poland, Hungary etc to their own court My point here is very simple, the eu relies more on the U.S. than Iran and they know what side their bread is buttered so will fall into line. This blinkered everything the eu does is good was highlighted by Crimea and the Ukraine. The eu huffed and puffed and ...largely pretended it hasn't happened. This is the problem with the eu, It's arrogance is not backed by its abilities or resources but people like Junker who want to create the united states of europe and step into the U.S.'s shoes, are wearing flip flops in a world of steel toe capped boots and will get the eu countries into a right old mess when mixing it with the big boys. Despite some putting the U.K. down a lot, many outside of the U.K. still see the U.K. as a standard bearer for positive things, democracy and fairness. Being able to go onto the world stage again at our own pace will have great benefits for us and our future. Just as a taster fin, the eu has said any deal must include our security services sharing intel with the eu but recently they have said we cannot have access to the gallileo satellite (a project we have already funded to some great expense.) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...stem-eu-security-brexit-defence-a8343146.html
Sorry fin, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't revisit the thread till just now. no worries, where you giving an interview with channel 4?
hopefully moving their HQ to glasgow, listening to an interview on bbc R,Scot yesterday with the guy promoting the idea was quite shameful. the presenter came up with quite a list of unique reasons why they shouldn't. but, but, to dear but to remote but but eh, to much income tax but eh, but. ferk orf bbc. anyhoos brexit,the real world, Ireland and Scotland. Scottish Unionism’s new Irish problem May11 by weegingerdug There are those amongst the British nationalist apologists in Scotland who accuse independence supporters of romanticism, of dealing in distortions of fact, but it’s a fact that there is no proponent of Scottish independence who would ever come out with something as ludicrously batshit as an article which was published this week in a site which is a new digital magazine for right wing British nationalism in Scotland, “Think Scotland”. Because what Scotland is really short on are outlets for British nationalist Conservatives. The batshit crazy article in question would be a piece by a certain Jonathan Stanley, who describes himself as a free market libertarian, and who retweets Katie Hopkins. Jonathan calls on the Republic of Ireland to, ahem, come home to Britain. This is a call which Jonathan makes on the very day that an Irish opinion poll showed that support for EU membership in the Republic has risen to 92%. And all this magical thinking, dear readers, is on a site which aspires to be the intellectual home of Scottish Unionism. This may be the intellectualism of Scottish Unionism, but Unionist populism is demonstrated by Orange parades and Nazi saluting fascists, so we’re dealing with a pretty low bar here. You might not always agree with the pieces published in pro-independence multi-author sites like Bella Caledonia or Common Space. But none of them would ever consider publishing something as gob smackingly crazy and deluded as Jonathan’s proposal for the Republic of Ireland to surrender its sovereignty in return for the right to send MPs to Westminster, just in order to make post-Brexit Britain’s life a bit easier. It’s not often that I read something which is purportedly serious which makes me guffaw out loud. Thanks for the laugh if nothing else Jonathan. It’s Britain’s Brexiteer mania which has created the problem with the Irish border, but in Jonathan’s world it’s Ireland which needs to change to accommodate the problems that the UK has caused. Someone who fancies himself as a serious thinker is seriously proposing that the Irish Republic should give up its independence in return for 50 MPs in Westminster who can be sidelined, ignored, and marginalised just like Scotland’s. Then it can participate in all the great trade deals that Liam Fox is going to negotiate for us. Whoop. And indeed, de doo. There hasn’t been a less attractive offer since the Roman general Lucius Gellius Publicola generously told Spartacus that if he gave up all this liberty carry on and went back to being a slave he’d be guaranteed at least one bowl of gruel a day and only the occasional light flogging. Admittedly there’s a certain type of public schoolboy in the Conservative party who is rather drawn to the idea of the occasional light flogging, but you can’t really impute personal kinks to an entire country. Although that would be a reasonable explanation for the otherwise inexplicable popularity of Jacob Rees Mogg amongst certain sections of the British public. . The existence of the Irish Republic puts a lie to the myth that there is something essentially British shared by the peoples of this archipelago which unites us all and justifies the existence of a single parliament in Westminster ruling over us all. The links between Scotland and England are long and deep, this is true. But so are the links between Scotland and Ireland. Labour preaches that working people in Leith have more in common with working people in Liverpool. But the problem is that whatever it is that is shared between Leith and Liverpool is also shared with Limerick. British nationalists in Scotland have always had a bit of a problem with Ireland. Historically that manifested itself in the form of naked and rampant sectarianism, in the denial of jobs and housing to Scots of Irish Catholic descent. These days, at least on the respectable wing of staunch opposition to Scottish independence, the problem that British nationalists in Scotland have with Ireland manifests itself in the form of harrumphy blog articles denying that Ireland should really exist at all. So for example there was the recent effort from the reliably amusing Effie Deans who argued that everything good about Ireland comes from Britain, except possibly hurling and Tayto crisps. She was prepared to concede that the Táin Bó Cúailnge is authentically Irish, but it’s not a good thing because apparently Iron Age epic poetry doesn’t reflect modern democratic values. Well who knew? . Ireland threatens to derail the Brexit process, and because Ireland can count on the support of the rest of the EU it has inverted the traditional power dynamic of Britain telling Ireland what to do, and Ireland putting up with it on the pain of colonialisation and famine. Now it’s Ireland dictating terms to the UK. That’s a bitter pill to swallow for British nationalism, all the more so because Brexit was predicated on the mistaken belief that it would allow the UK to take back control. The Union fleg wavers were told they’re going to take back control, only then they end up being told what to do by Dublin. As generations of Irish and Scottish mothers have said, Hell slap it into them. However for British nationalists in Scotland, the real issue with the Irish border isn’t just that it threatens to derail Brexit. It’s that the Irish border issue threatens to destroy one of the key arguments against Scottish independence, the oft-repeated claim that we heard in 2014 that Scottish independence would result in barbed wire and control posts being imposed all the way along the border from Gretna to Berwick. After all, the UK cannot credibly threaten an independent Scotland that’s a member of the customs union, the single market, and the common travel area with an Iron Curtain style border after it has committed to ensuring that there’s no perceptible border between the UK and another state that’s a member of the customs union, the single market, and the common travel area. . The power and strength of Ireland in negotiations with the UK also demonstrates the power and influence that an independent Scotland could wield. It’s hard to tell Scotland that we’ll be powerless and ineffectual when the almighty British government is being told what to do by Dublin. That’s what’s really exercising British nationalists in Scotland about Ireland these days. Ireland shows up the weakness of the British state, the strength that comes from independence, and destroys some of Better Together’s favourite arguments. And British nationalists have no answer, no come back, other than fanciful articles wishing for the impossible. There is more chance of Murdo Fraser coming out as an independence supporting Celtic fan who votes socialist than there is of the Irish Republic deciding to return to British rule.
Erm, it's the EU that has created the so-called Irish border problem. The UK Government has stated that it has no intention of creating a hard border and has suggested various solutions which would avoid one, some of which are already used successfully in other parts of the world, but these have been rejected by the EU which is insisting on a hard border to ensure the collection of its revenues. It's a non-issue that has been turned into a problem for strategic reasons by the EU to try and prevent a deal being struck. Ireland's wet-behind-the-ears premier is playing along with it like the obedient little EU colonial that he is in the hope there'll be a dog biscuit for him at the end of it. There won't. There never is with the EU. He is The Project's newest useful idiot and like others before him he will be doomed to disappointment.
Fin, As usual, dugs been digging but hasn't found gold. The eu has no issues with hard borders, in fact there are hard border checks in the main migration channels certianly like the Ireland issue, by road. Interestingly enough where some say the U.K. is the problem, most of those people have not read the eu's own rules. As to the U.K. suggestion of a more Dartford tunnel electronic tagging type of arrangement, they have it themselves, look up EUROSUR or you can find a lot of your answers here where the eu says "A proposed European System of Border Surveillance (EUROSUR) will help EU countries to develop their surveillance capabilities. The aim is to help prevent illegal border crossings and reduce irregular migration, which often has tragic consequences. It will also help to improve the EU's internal security by preventing cross-border crimes." http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-should-i-avoid/how-to-enter-the-eu/crossing-the-eu-borders_en So the very same system we are suggesting for the Irish issue, the eu already endorse, but refuse it saying it is not workable. They have hard borders all around the gated community that is the eu, they have a hard border between Spain and Gibraltar, they have hard borders between the eu and Turkey that has razor wire and electrified fences. So hard borders are NOT an issue for the eu at all (even though the U.K. is not suggesting any hard border like the days of old.) Where the eu does have an issue with any border is where a member state wants to leave and they want to stop it.
EU member Hungary have a hard border with other EU states. I see Mr Neil Kinnock is throwing his political weight in support of his family's gravy train, the EU, again this morning. Is he really "Baron Kinnock of Bedwetty" I know he is the man that got beaten by John "nice peas" Major in a past GE.
