Definitely. I would pay good money to watch Nige take on Barnier across the negotiating table. You know when you put salt on a slug and it squirms and writhes.. That would be our Michel.
This guy is hilarious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44372761 ....the bit about selling shares below market value, from him?!!! One word. Gold.
Again looking at europe through european eyes, http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/07/german-industrial-orders-plunge-due-to-fears-of-trade-war https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...eptic-government-vows-work-hungary-change-eu/
going by the results of the latest uk social attitudes poll, i wonder if us Scots are starting to embrace brexit a lil more. the poll suggests, we are far more optimistic about the future than our RUK cousins. hmm.
I'm glad you posted that because it is what many of us have been saying for ages, project undermine. When the vote took place, on voting day as late as 11.30 pm, I saw Nige say it looks like we have lost. I was dissapointed and went to bed with the belief we had lost. The next morning I was extaic that after 40 plus years that we were leaving a body that we never voted to join (we voted to join a trade body and were assured it would never be a united states of europe). Then the fear set in. Most brexiteers knew certianly in whitehall and the lords, most have their bread buttered by the eu enough that they wanted to remain and would do everything possible to draw out the negotiations and try to sabotage it at every point. This has been proven to be true The boris link you posted is that every now and again there are meetings under "the chatham house rule" which has a limitation of restriction applied and it highlights just how underhanded the project undermine team are, democracy and people voting is not their friend Ever since vote leave won, project fear has become project undermine and at every turn and every avenue, the brexit team seems to have fought people who are paid to assist the ministers and departments run the country for the people. In this case given it is an action based on a democratic vote, one of the highest every taken part of. If you look at the negotiations the eu are more or less point blank turning up to negotiations with no intent of negotiating. Why should they, they have enough with our own establishment undermining the democractic vote that the eu will just sit back to the last minute. It is for this exact reason so many of us said go straight to wto, then the eu couldn't feck it up for us and business would know where they were and could start planning within weeks of the vote. Corbyn is unelectable, every poll has shown no matter how you feel about Labour, Corbyn is never going to be prime minister. So the next election will see another tory government, that depends on how they handle brexit and project undermine will do it's very best to still scupper it because like most whitehall staff, they will not be voted out if they missbehave. Whitehall is a festering cesspit of anti democracy
Maybe though, the problem has been OUR successive Governments all along and not the EU? Austria, part of Germany, part of the EU. They seem able to do things that we could not (excuse from our lot, against EU rules, human rights etc.), yet; https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-a...expel-foreign-funded-imams-idUKKCN1J40WT?il=0
Hardly relevant but maybe it is: for some reason, I was watching recently a segment of a South African news programme which had a mixture of domestic and wider African events being reported upon. The newscaster (who looked like she could eat me for breakfast) went through the stories and I felt like I was listening to a human being, someone who called a shovel a shovel and did not appear to be talking down to me. She didn't use euphemisms, I spotted that straight away. Compare this to a news broadcast in the UK where the presenters speak at you like you are a dim and recalcitrant child (whether you are one or not). I'm setting everyone homework. You are all to watch news programs from six different countries and report back what you find : o ) @finm, PM me for a briefing on what a country is.
we were leaving a body that we never voted to join (we voted to join a trade body and were assured it would never be a united states of europe). Then the fear set in. Most brexiteers knew certianly in whitehall and the lords, most have their bread buttered by the eu enough that they wanted to remain and would do everything possible to draw out the negotiations and try to sabotage it at every point. This has been proven to be true most remainers knew there never was a chance of a fully integrated EU without the uk agreeing to it. never going to happen. mot remainers new the EU elites *giggle* yo keep referring to are the v,ones the national govs send as commissioners. most remainers knew the national gov's are the ones harboring the elites. now unfettered. doh!.
I obviously have a more pro European view than the loudest on here (pro EU lot tend not to stick their heads over the parapet on here very much..). I would make the point again, as per post 2376, the issue we all face is 'the Establishment' in the UK. We should have concentrated more on ours, less on the EU. Other countries are remaining in a mutually beneficial trade agreement. Many countries are saying 'no' to the EU, we will not have unfettered immigration. As per Austria, they are also taking a hard line against extreme Islam. So if they can remain members, can make 'Sovereign' decisions, then the issue has always been lack of backbone HERE. Why? Because it has suited the politics and underlying wishes of the establishment. Brexit is something I could only get behind only if we had strong Government, with a real vision, leadership and a plan. Until that happens you will just never convince me that its not out of the frying pan, in to the fire!
If we were the only country having issue with the eu I'd agree with you But when you look at Germany having the first ever labelled as "far right" mp's in the Bundestag, Austria now having a populist government who are not pro eu, Spain is unsure what next, italy voting in and by some margin a anti eu coalition that looks like it is going into direct confrontation with the eu and germany, Greece still full of anger at the eu for destroying it through wonga type loans Hungary saying feck you eu we are in the eu in name only and you don't tell us what to do Poland on a direct course to, according to the eu, lose it's voting rights unless as it does as it is told Czech republic & Slovakia as well as the two above have been threatened with legal action unless it follows eu rules to the letter The republic of ireland being taken to court by the eu for the tax benefits Apple provided and they have to pay $15 billion dollars to the eu France, even macron has said he feels if France was offered a stay or leave vote as we were, he feels the French would vote leave so jb, if it was just us, then yes I would say the U.K. is the issue and therefore we are the issue. Given though how many remainers closed their eyes to much of what is going on in europe, it would seem most countries within the eu, have an issue with the eu and when two of it's founding members would probably leave if the people were asked, then at some point you may just think, have we got out ahead of the curve and in time to build forward on out own?
