who else hates kids?

Interesting set of sweeping generalisations and vitriol there especially for someone entrusted to work with kids. I guess you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else, doesn't make you right or wrong it is after all, just your opinion.

Humans are interesting creatures, psychologically we are imprintable up to about the age of 7 and our behaviours are learned and programmed by our parents, our family, our experiences, culture, surroundings and many more external influences. There is no single source of a child's behaviour and one would be naive to suggest that "it's the kid's fault" or "the parent's fault". Both are contributors, there is no single source. Beyond 7 we begin to form our own ideas, create strategies, enhance our imprinted values and beliefs and all of these drive our behaviours, initially formed in the first 7 years. Around 14 or so we embark on our social behavioural development until we reach adulthood and the melting pot of the human brain achieves more stability; it's so complex it is unique to the individual. The point here is this - people are not their behaviours. Behaviour is created and influenced by many things and a lot of those influences are external to the individual even passed down through generations of family. While you gripe about "kids" are you sure it's "kids" and not society in general you have the beef with? Are you sure it's actually neither and this is just you and your limiting beliefs and how you deal with your deep seated issues that you've just exposed now? It is very interesting that individuals here can find glee in a child "slamming their skull" into something - the child is not their behaviour. It'd be enlightenting to be a fly on the wall in a therapy room with someone who considers that amusing.

A man sat on a tube carriage in London with his three kids. He sat quietly, his kids ran up and down the moving carriage bumping into people, being loud, knocking newspapers and making noise disturbing the commuters - probably "being obnoxious" in some people's assessment? An office worker had his newspaper ripped by a kid running by and went over to the father ranting" can't you keep your bloody kids under control? You're a disgrace as a parent to let them behave so badly". The guy looked up and smiled and said "No, I'm letting them blow off steam. You see they have spent the last five days being quiet, sat unable to play and shout and jump and run. They were sat beside their mother in hospital as she slipped away from us with terminal cancer. She died this morning with us all by her side so if my kids want a release for their pain and loss and a future without their mother, they can have it."

The map is not the territory and the world would be a better place if we all hesitated and considered possible context before delivering our imperfect judgements.

In case you're wondering yes I have one kid. She's like my Ducati, on the one hand unique, beautiful, and full of character, on the other hand she's temperamental, annoying, unpredictable, doesn't always do what I want and is uniquely imperfect. Sometimes, maybe like my Ducati, I struggle with her company, but anyone tries to forcibly take her away from me and I'll kill them or die in the process...

 

I thought that too. Strange to choose to work with kids when you "hate them" ??

 

So do you think free will actually exists, or is it an illusion?

 

I guess it depends on your definition of free will Pete...is it up to you and you alone to make any choice? As an adult I believe it is even though that choice is influenced by the strategies, values and beliefs held in your subconscious. You can of course choose to change any of those for something different providing you possess the resources to do so and not everyone is cognisant that they do...

 

I like to think that a lot of the content of funky's posts above have a 'tongue in cheek' aspect to them and that his bark is far worse than his bite. I have read many posts on here that I think would have caused outrage if quoted in the media - overall this thread seems pretty tame to this poster.

 

Yes in your world Chris where you define what is and isn't tame...to me it's very different.

 

fully understood lord - the opinions of a few can be awash with flaws, let's await to see what the many say.

 

Thing is people's characters change with chemical imbalance. People lacking lithium (or having too much of it, can't remember which) become very odd human beings.

It's quite easy to see people as just a cocktail of chemicals. Tweak that cocktail and you have a completely different person. So what is their "real" character, and how much are they really responsible for it?
Psychopaths know when they harm others that they are doing wrong. The thing is, they don't care, because they lack the empathy part of the brain's function. It makes them unpleasant and possibly dangerous people, but how much of it is their fault?

This is a big philosophical can of worms.

 

Too difficult a subject for me. For example:

"That lad is a tearaway."
"Give him a clip around the ear hole. Did me no harm!"
"I would do but I'd go to prison."
"He was physically abused when he was younger, have some sympathy."
"He's also an arsonist."
"It's not his fault, it's his parents."
"He set fire to a car and someone died as a result."
"Ah, bless, he's just acting up."

How the hell do you untangle that mess?

Lordmoonpie provides the nightmare scenario in his tale - kids acting up which you can do nothing about because they are grieving. How can you tell the difference between kids doing criminal damage because they like to do so and kids doing it because they are victims themselves of tragedy or criminal negligence, etc? Is there a need to tell the difference? There's always, always an excuse for rotten or criminal behaviour. Saying Please stop isn't often the solution but it is often the goad for further misbehaviour.

I grew up fairly law-abiding, despite my home circumstances reading like a perfect recipe for social dysfunction. The "hell" I kicked up wouldn't even register on today's antisocial behaviour radar. I didn't rise above my horrible situation but neither did I sink into barbarism.

I literally have no idea how to resolve the dilemma in my own head, let alone in the wider context of society. Certainly, children should be taught to behave and show respect, if not by the parents then by a suitable substitute person or process. Won't happen though, except amongst families that already understand the principles involved.

Slight tangent, I gather that vandalism in the UK is on the decline. Sociologists are suggesting that with the pervasive nature of social media, including twitter and smartphones, kids are finding ways of expressing themselves which don't involve spray cans and kicking the crap out of bus shelters.

 

There is the argument that each person comprises the genetic package they inherit - which they can't alter and are not responsible for - plus their experiences during upbringing (physical, chemical and psychological) - which they also can't alter and are not responsible for.

So is there a counter argument? What exactly is an individual truly responsible for in themselves? If anything?

 

When we have children unfortunately they don't come with an a-z, parenting isn't easy but it's not difficult either. My parenting skills have evolved from how I was brought up.....brought up not dragged up like some children are. My son is 9, over these years we have developed a very close, strong bond/relationship, we have no secrets there are no lies, we aren't "friends" i am his mother Im THE BOSS! he knows where the boundary is, he isn't always an angel he will push these boundaries but deep down he knows it ends in discipline. Up until I met Butch I brought my son up on my own, I was all he had his "sperm donor" after our separation when my son was 15 months old chose not to fulfil parental responsibility, however it hasn't stopped him having another child and he can't look after that one either! My son is very respectful he can also be disrespectful to me it doesn't wash, he gets disciplined, he has manners - they cost nothing he knows this, he has a strong relationship with Butch he will not push him, he's tougher than me! Unfortunately it saddens me to see how some parents speak to their children, how they let them rule. Kids are not the rulers parents Are. How a parent brings up a child is how more than likely how a child will when an adult bring up their own, if a child is sworn at by the parent they will assume this is right. If a child is allowed to scream and throw tantrums and is not disciplined they will think this is ok, they will do it again. Children are attention seekers they want to have an affect, if you let them they win they will continue. I can count on both hands how many times I have smacked my son in 9 years, I don't need to raise a hand I only need adjust the tone of my voice, it's effective. I wouldn't have my time again because I wouldn't be without my boy he is a very strong part of my life which I wouldn't change for the world. I enjoy being a Mum and as far as I'm concerned I'm pleased with my parenting skills, I'm developing my child so he will become a decent respectable adult. I won't have any more children not for not wanting but because for one this society today isn't a place to bring children into. It's how some have made it - a sorry state of affairs. Two because for selfish reasons as my son is now getting older, butch and i can enjoy our relationship and what we like to do, and As much as Butch will say it that he doesn't like kids he is doing a damn fine job of bringing up my boy!

 

Well this one 15 year old individual came in from school in his sports kit at 6pm and was asked to get showered and changed before coming down for tea.
He'd been playing basketball today after school and his sports kit consists of lined track suit bottoms and a synthetic type polo shirt, when they get sweaty, they stink like crazy. Not the usual teenage boy stink, a really putrid I haven't washed for a month stench more usually found at the back of a supermarket by the waste compactor!! The fact he was in his sports kit also means that his school suit, shirt and tie are in his sports bag next to his other sports kit, cricket box, god knows how many pairs of his and his mates odd sweaty socks and 2 or 3 towels that should have been in the wash at Christmas and also stink like crazy. So does he think to take these out and place them in the laundry room? Does he hell!! He goes straight to his room, which is ominously quiet for a bit, just as I'm getting a pang of 'was I too hard on him' :-
He appears after 10 minutes, in clean casual clothes, no shower and no socks. So he was asked again to shower whereupon he said he would shower later (huff) rolling of eyes and snarl in my direction.
I'm now a little f***ed off and decide he will be responsible for making his own tea and mine (it was only pasta bake his mum made to re-heat from the freezer followed by apple strudel) washing the dishes afterwards and then going for the shower he should have taken to start with.
His ipad and laptop were duly confiscated until after his shower, which he did eventually take at 8pm. Why can't they just do as you ask them to when you ask them to, without the looks, the huffing and the 'you don't deserve to occupy this house and breath the same air as me' attitude?

Since showering he has stayed in his room and not ventured downstairs.

His mother comes in from school at 8pm and reminds me his suit, shirt and tie will be in his sports bag putrefying, why had I not put them in the laundry? Plainly that's my fault as I had forgotten the part of my job description that refers to my working below stairs and being called Mr Carson.

At 8.05pm his twin sister turns up straight from the stables covered in straw and horse shit and proceeds to remove her riding boots in the hallway, not outside where they should be. Whilst removing said boots she was depositing various bits of straw all over the entrance hall. I politely suggest that she should be outside doing that before she drops a complete set of horse bedding deep enough to stable a Shetland, she should also go and have a shower as she stank of horse shit, whilst I prep her tea.
What do I get in return? a tearful 'don't go on dad, I've just about had it today'! this resulted in her father depositing her outside the front door and locking it until she had removed the offending articles and brushed off the straw. She stormed off to shower only to find she had to prep her own tea afterwards and shock! her ipad had also been confiscated along with her laptop. She had at least showered and duly presented in the kitchen in her 'onsey' before eating then storming off to her bedroom, suitably pissed off.

So, 'What exactly is an individual truly responsible for in themselves'?

Nothing to do with me I wash my hands of the whole lot of them, they can live in shit for all I care, they are not of my seed and they need to start grafting for a living.

Unfortunately the first one will be at Twickenham with me on Saturday blasting his lungs out and all will be forgiven and his sister will be riding with me on Sunday and I'll admire her jumping position and wish I was half as good on a horse as she is and normality will return to our household and I'll remember that I'm very proud of them and I could have much worse, very much worse kids, who drink, do drugs and sh*g for England and are regularly brought home under a blue light. I guess they are maybe part of me after all?

 

You should watch the movie Idiocracy. Its a frightening vision of the future :frown: Its a comedy by the way :tongue:

Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb

 

we tride to have kids for years , had all the tests only to find out that we could not "shame " so after saving for ivf not drinking for six months the news came as a bit of a shock , very soon got over it when i realised that i could not aford a very shiny 916 stada WOO HOO , and unlike kids when i got board of the 916 i sold it and bought a bimota SB8 and the rest is history

 

Yup
I had a good one this morning.
Went to wake eldest up and hmmm it appears that he thought if he slept in his uniform it would save time in the morning!
I told him he can get that off and change into a clean set ....
Get the mumbling "yes mum" ...
My sons both have very very long hair and teenager now hides behind it somewhat like Neil from the Young Ones!!!
Comes down stairs gives me that look like time to go now ... ( despite the fact I've been up and waiting for him!).

Get back , its my day off ...
Surprise he just changed his pants and trousers !!!
As for the PE kit bag ...
It's like Nuclear waste ... The smell !!!
I have a real hatred for dirty socks and worse balked up dirty socks .. It's one of my odd dislikes..
So I'm nearly heaving cleaning that bag out!
Youngest gets home and either runs about in boxer shorts ?????
Or football kit.
Every Friday it's change the beds and il find 50 million balled up socks .. Everywhere.

Mind you apart from the odd grumble about my nagging I'm assured this is normal boys stuff

It's funny we come into the world a bundle of genes..
But I know that the slightest tip in hormones and serotonin can send me spinning off an axis.
And it's out of your control ...
Unless you have drugs to combat it.
It's only recently I have recognised this...
It's horrible as you know it's going to happen but can't stop it.. It's your chemical make up.

However I know right from wrong.
As much as I would like to axe murder the stupid bint next door ... I don't because its wrong ( dam it).

I've worked with people who sadly think that if they stab you it's ok ... And can't see that it's wrong.
It doesn't help that these young people are allowed to watch slasher movies at a young age... We watch and can dismiss what's reality and what's not.

Sadly some who I believe have severe chemical imbalances and their brain is wired up differently can not..
I see people who actually look on the world as if it was through a T.V .
That's the best way I can describe it .

It's very very sad when you meet these young people as it will go one way or other.
You detect it and from a young age flag it up and get support put in place ( sadly often residential care in a unit).
Or they go undetected or labeled naughty when it's far more serious!!

Luckily you now tend to spot it more.
But it's wether you can get things in place at a young age.

Sadly when they hit adulthood and services are dire it's when you get problems.

A lot of the American spree killers ..
They see the world like viewing through a T.V .. They are not seeing what we see.
Often no remorse...
Because they have not been picked it up as a young age! . The signs are there ..
It's wether someone picks it up.
Sadly in a lot if these small towns in the states like the last guy sounds like his mother knew but did not seek help.

These people are at the severe end of the scale .
It's sad to see .. Especially with children that are one minute funny and chatty and the next going to destroy you.

It's a combination of genes , how your brain is wired up.
And Chemicals and outside influences.
Most of us are balanced and wired so we can deal with extreme things and still know right from wrong.

But sadly there are a very tiny amount of people who actually can't see it .
Will deny it.. If you film them smashing something up and play it back they view it ( in their TV mode ) and they actually can not identify that the person smashing something up is them.
And they really mean it!!!

Alas there are more people who know right from wrong and think they are above it.

The ones that blame " I'm from a broken home " was a classic or likewise.

I'm sorry but you see and hear about children who have had horrific childhoods yet blossomed into amazing adults.

I'm not saying that its not kids faults .
I'm saying you have one extreme of I really believe brain works differently and sees differently .

Then you have the "naughty" which is not great parenting , wrong outside influences... Everything is there normally but just moulded badly.
Because you could take one of these children and put them in a good caring home and at first they would be hell but eventually with care often they turn into well rounded adults.

Then normal folks who say about 1in 3 or 4 will at some point suffer a chemical imbalance.
Which is why some are prone to depression.. Or get that way after loss or trauma.
It doesn't take diddly squat to throw you out .
Hormones as well.. Both men and women really hormone governed.
Cue PMT jokes ( permanent Male Tension ) .

So I rightly or wrongly believe
You have a bundle of genes .

Then you have maybe a few different ways the brain is wired up.

Then you have hormones and chemicals that effect you lots.

Finally outside influences , parenting and lifestyle.
It's a bloody tricky combination that makes us humans and its what makes us all different.

But the base to work with has to be there.
So you can learn right from wrong.
How to behave in a manner acceptable to the majority of society.

That your balanced.

It only takes a few little things to tip the wrong way ..

If it wasn't a complex business we would all be modelled to be good decent people in society.

The fact that its not been cracked prooves otherwise it's all about finding the middle ground and fine tuning.
But there are extreme ends of that spectrum that nothing will turn them into the person we hope all people should be .
Because the wiring up is different.,

 

Also men and women differ .

I was chatting to a health professional.

He was saying women make decisions but really think about but what if .. What will they think and will usually take into account cause and effect on others before executing a decision.

Men make a decision then usually just do it.
They get it into their head and that's it there going to do it.
That they are more single minded.

Women make a decision but can be often brought round.

Probably again down to basic survival mode.
Men hunted and gathered no time to dither about with choices .. Do it or get eaten!

Women more maternal .. Looked after everyone so they tend to be more empathetic .
You had to make sure you and your offspring survived .

( I'm not very maternal ) .
Probably why more crims and murderers are male.
Idea is there and they just do it.

Women tend to stop and say but what if
Who will effect?
All primal instincts