The issue of use of LED warning lights in addition to the traditional flags is a significant one for me. Was wondering how widespread the use of LED systems (as an addition for marshals, not a replacement) is on UK tracks?
I hope that is the case. The reason I ask is that change here has been has been painfully slow. My interest in this dates back to 2009 when I was racing and a faster guy called Judd Greedy was also in Supersport (I did not attend this particular round – too far) at the Aust. Superbike meet in Tasmania. He was leading the race (group of 3 then a gap) when, coming out of a tight corner he highsided, landed heavily and stunned/concussed sat up on track. The two riders close behind avoided him, there was a 8.5 – 9 second gap and others avoided him until a rider in 14th struck him with fatal consequences. The yellow was deployed 2-2.5 secs after the fall and the red 17 secs after the fall. Interviews with riders in positions 6-18 revealed only 1 saw the yellow flag. Delay in deployment of the red was due to Marshals requiring radio approval by the Clerk of the Course. After a Coroner's Inquiry into the death, the following recommendation was made in respect of flags: “While I acknowledge that flag marshals have been used for many decades as a warning and instruction system[…] race bikes have developed into precision machines […] I am concerned as to whether safety precautions have advanced at the same pace. […] The placement of lighting systems at flag marshal locations at various other locations around a track may reduce the number of incidents such as have occurred at Symmons Plains. LEDs, either flashing or static, can be both bright and small and as such can be placed much closer to the edges of the track as opposed to a flag marshal […] I acknowledge that it may be costly to establish but equally what price does one put on a life or a broken body.” Subsequent to this I wrote detailed submissions to Motorcycling Australia (“MA” - governing body ASBK). After a month of follow up all I reived from them was that they were considering the Coroner's recommendations. I I therefore wrote to the State Minister of Sport in Tasmania and received the attached response.Sounds very cheery. Unfortunately it is completely ill-informed and, to cut a long story short, progress on adding LED systems to tracks around Aust has been glacial ever since. Track owners will happily invest in the latest "scoreboard", which just happens to be able to show ads as well, but as far as on-circuit LED warning lights and a Master system with the Clerk (where he can put on an all-track red at the touch of a button), they are still few and far between 10 years after Greedy's death.
I'm not saying replace flags. The systems have an LED display closer to the track than a flag and the Marshal has a controller to activate it at the same time as waving a flag. So it is an addition to visibility. I can't see any reasonable objection except cost and in 2019 the systems are much cheaper than they were in 2012.
Sunlight for one. Another is a Marshall running to the edge madly waving a flag gains my attention more than a gantry 40 ft off the side and 30 ft in the air. But in places definely better. Also, more lights gives trackday companies less reason to employ Marshall’s.
1) If Conditions are such that sun makes the light difficult to see, the flag is still there = no difference 2) Mounted on a gantry? I'm not talking about F1 style systems. Rather something within budget of local tracks that are closer to trackside than a Marshal can safely be but obviously not where a rider could hit one - see attached images of a budget system. 3) Marshals at our track are volunteers. Tracks where they can afford paid Marshals can afford these sytems. And this is not mere inconvenience or a luxury accessory, it can be the difference between me exiting a corner full noise unaware of anything other than racing or or being put on notice something is up, maybe a rider down on track just up ahead out of my sight.
Bikes with led brake lights at the end of straights when I am entering the straight are easily mistaken for marshall lights
Well I can't agree that a brake light can be mistaken for a panel light, and secondly the panel light is located off track so why you are looking off track instead of the direction in which you are heading beats me. Panel lights are distinctive solid square or round lights, bike brake lights are not - I've never heard of confusing the two before.
Yes, but I'm not talking about where Marshal's are posted. Sometimes for their own safety they are positioned out of line of sight. In any event, the addition of an LED panel has the advantage, in the words of the Coroner as quoted in the first post above: "can be placed much closer to the edges of the track as opposed to a flag marshal"
Well my concern is solely with the function of alerting riders to hazards ahead, whether that be for their own safety or for the safety of riders who have fallen on track. In this case the flag system was shown to be demonstrably inadequate and cost a life. The highest levels of racing have taken the view that by far the best interests of riders/drivers are served by very clear lighting systems, not just the now antiquated leaning out of a box and waving a flag at someone concentrating on what they are doing at 200km/h+. This is particularly the case where there is a change in visibility due to heavy cloud/drizzle etc. This guy was sitting on track for well over 10 seconds whilst 13 bikes weaved around him under a yellow which riders (except 1) did not see. His life was ended accidentally by the 14th who ended up in hospital. Racing is inherently dangerous, but where there is a simple and pretty inexpensive way of properly alerting racers (even at local amateur level) to avoid danger to others if not themselves, I know in which way logic directs me in this matter.
Just to put a face to the incident in question, because this is not an abstract or purely theoretical issue, the late Judd Greedy:
I should mention that Judd was from Queensland and as such, I also wrote to that State's Minister of Sport and received this reply from his Principal Advisor: Of course there is a racetrack in Queensland that is is privately owned and run. This statement is akin to saying that since the Qld Govt does not own a particular house in Qld it canot require it to have safe electrical wiring, building standards, not operate criminal enterprises from within it etc. It is the the statement of an arseclown. Nevertheless, fortunately for ASBK competitors, the tracks they use are also used by the well funded, popular and televised V8 Supercar series. Talking to a former racing compadre of mine yesterday I was informed that when that series decided to only licence tracks with LED systems there was a sudden change of heart amongst governments and loan facilities were negotiated with operators for the installation of LEDs. His opinion as a racer was that there was simply no comparison in terms of visibility between the LEDs and flags. So Judd's death did not count for anything in the eyes of government or governing bodies (which is not unusual) but the threat of the loss of tourist dollars and promotion via hosting an internationally telecast event saw a very quick response indeed. It is worth remembering that the standards we walk past are the standards we accept, and that one day may apply to those close to ourselves.
There have been some strange views from both sides above, and I’m not sure they are all reasonable or sensible. As far as LED warnings at tracks, I personally like them and bright sun doesn’t cause a problem if they have a visor, especially if they flash. However, most I have seen are at a marshalls post, not at additional locations (I think the exception to that was Rockingham, which has shut down.... and do they have an extra light round the back of Oulton somewhere, or did I make that up?!), and I struggle to see how you could put them anywhere other than above a barrier in this age of H&S fear, because almost anywhere else they would be useful they would get hit (you can’t even mount a GoPro on the top of your forks on some trackdays now!). I’m not saying there isn’t going to be a way, but tracks are averse to putting anything between the track and barrier that if hit might cause injury, so I don’t think a wish for them to be closer to the track is a sensible one.
UK seems to be driven by two things: serious injury causing a threat of litigation (Cadwell mountain and probably Oulton) and big race organisers insisting. Also need to bear in mind that a red flag can ons be given by the clerk: a marshal cant decide this things. The main bibelot of having a light system then could be a master switch in race control where it turns them on immediately, which could be done for the video footage rather than a marshal discussion. The hardest part (as Jolley says) is having it safely close enough and in line of sight. Most approach a right turn looking way up the road to the right: a light 20 ft to the left is easily missed in racing (IME enough miss a ,marshal waving a yellow right in front of them and still overtake )
The inference being my correspondence to officials in this matter was of an officious, trivial or nit-picking nature. Judd Greedy crashed, was stranded mid track for over 10 seconds whist 13 bikes at speed avoided him. The 14th unavoidably struck him. The findings were that: " Examination of his helmet revealed a tyre mark on the chin piece leading to the conclusion that the front wheel of XXXXX's motorcycle has effectively torn the helmet from the deceased's head, causing his massive injuries. The autopsy revealed a … crushing injury of the skull (hemi-circumferential fracture of the lower occipital skull) and subtotal avulsion of the head and neck from the thorax. These injuries resulted in essentially instantaneous death. " His parents sat through that finding being read out. Their helpless, semi-conscious son was virtually and needlessly decapitated. Think of a gag about that.
