@Loz your post was too long to quote. I think your comment about not believing that I see benefits in leaving sums up forum discussions on such matters. It demonstrates that you never really know people when talking on forums. Most of my friends voted leave. Most of my friends on this forum voted leave. I voted YES to Scottish Independence even though I knew it would bring a bit of pain in the short term. I have recently listed several benefits of leaving the EU such as being able to subsidise strategically important industries such as steel making, ship building and farming. I fully understand that people are feeling overwhelmed by immigration, especially in the south east. I see it every day. People in Scotland have not experienced that, so for them it’s not an issue. What grinds my gears is people like Noobie who pretend that everything will be great. That in March 30th, with no deal, everything at Dover will be fine. It just isn’t. It will be chaos, it doesn’t take much to bring it to a halt as most of us have experienced already. As an example. Take the post above about import duty on New Zealand lamb and the claim it will make food cheaper. But you cannot zero rate it and not be prepared to accept the consequences.that being the destruction of sheep farming in the U.K. how is that taking back control? There are any number of pro Brexit politicians that are making such claims without following through on the consequences. It’s the farmers who look after our countryside. Who will do that when their farms go out of business? Another example, is the Irish border. Politicians and people in general are clinging on to the idea that it can be solved. BoJo was championing the PMd plan to ditch the backstop, but the EU won’t accept that. IMHO people who are in favour of Brexit would be better served sticking to the undeniable benefits and stop pretending the problems will somehow be solved. Never undermine a good argument with a bad one. The EU has serious problems. Lots of things I don’t like. But paying 35per person per day isn’t an argument to leave. People who acknowledge problems are more credible than people who don’t
I agree with most of what you say, very well said, what worries me about the EU is the direction it is going as much as where it is now, I have wanted out for as long as I can remember and I'm fully prepared for a bumpy Road in the short term. Steve
That’s what all radio presenters do. Farage, Ferrari all do the same. Please tell me you are not in danger of becoming a snowflake? question on farming and cheap food? Avoided. EU is protectionist for our benefit.
What grinds my gears is people like Noobie who pretend that everything will be great. That in March 30th, with no deal, everything at Dover will be fine. It just isn’t. It will be chaos, it doesn’t take much to bring it to a halt as most of us have experienced already. Being an optomist on the strengths of the U.K. may upset you but can I say as you appear to be a fervent remainer, can I politely say, tough titty You must have missed the multiple times I have said it will have some rough times whilst we restablish standing on our own two feet again and predicted 2-3 years It's you and people like you that constantly undersell the U.K. and it's standing, we are no banana republic. Most of the items people like you put forward are not facts but any last desperate gasp of breath by remainers trying to stop brexit that when the claims are investigated, turn out to be false or at the bare minimum, an extreme over exageration of the consequences After a while people switch of from your incestent innacurate project fear. Your push is business business business whilst forgetting business does not control the vote or the people in a democracy and like most in business are thinking solely on mememe and rarely the people whilst preaching what about the people. Business can go fuck themselves, they needed a remainder they work in a peoples democratic country and they have to adapt to us as the customer and not the other way around. Something needed to change and europe is going down the technocracy that will never see change unless it is to a total integration where countries are forgotten and so are people just so we can be part of the borg collective. I have no wish for that and voted to say politely, happy to stay friends europe but your project is no longer for me. On this ...EU is protectionist for our benefit. I can only believe you have been part of a cult at some time in your life and look to the leader of the cult to make all of your lifes decisions for you, how silly The eu is protectionist to the eu project and the eu project only. It's no coincidence that the gap between the richest and the stagnation of the poorest has happened whilst in the eu.
I have to disagree on that one. The CAP is all about artificially supporting inefficient small farmers particularly in France. It consumed a massive Euros 59 Billion in 2018. We are further subsidising through purchasing from EU suppliers at higher rates than we could achieve from other world markets if there was no applicable tariff. I have seen some calculations that this could be adding £10-13 billion per year to the UK food bill. UK farmers do also receive some benefit (even Dyson!) but in the long term, it would be better to reduce/eliminate subsidies. Supporting payments to farmers over a few years are planned and these will reduce over time to enable framers to change to suit the changing demand. This is my understanding of how farmers will be protected by tariff free competition in the event of WTO exit. Long term, I think having more locally produced food is good for the environment. Buying seasonal vegetables and having very expensive fruit at some times of the year; no problem with that.
Thank you for outlining the aspects of Brexit you believe are beneficial. For me, the benefit is very simple. The UK can choose what it wants to do to improve the lot of its citizens. The UK can choose how to implement trade deals, immigration, justice, tax law, any aspect of sovereignty that applies to a nation. This is worth cash money, as far as I am concerned. If we are less well off in the short term, so be it. There will be an adjustment period, it may even be painful but I believe it will be short-lived. After that, we will be swimming in global waters and will find our place in the world economy. For me, the bottom line is not that we will be financially better off after Brexit. I hope we will be, I believe we will be but if the country takes a hit, it will be a necessary step. Independence and the best kind of democracy we as a nation can manage, is everything, the whole ballgame. In exactly the same way that this would be the case for Scotchland, should its people decide they want Independence after all. Snowflake? How could you suggest such a thing? I'm really upset. All radio presenters do that, I agree. In a matter of complexity, where nuanced thought and word is important, a radio interview with someone like JOB, JHB (TalkRadio), Cathy Newman, is going to be largely a wasted effort. The adversarial format is great radio/TV etc but renders a meaningful delivery of information impossible. The host's priority is to provide a circus, a spectacle for the audience. That's great but tricky subjects do not get explored - merely exploited. The point being - JOB failed to dismantle JRM for the simple reason that JOB gave JRM little opportunity to outline his thoughts. Talking over an interviewee during his answer, puffing and blowing ... useless. A wasted opportunity which brings us no further along in the debate. Either JRM was insufficiently prepared or more likely, too flustered to summon his thoughts on the matter. This is a shame as I would dearly love to have had that particular issue addressed. For instance, did JRM have a complex response that would satisfy the public or would it have been something along the lines of, "Get used to growth hormones, they aren't so bad". Now that would have been interesting. We won't know now - thanks JOB. Thanks a lot. I'm sorry, I needed to clean my laptop screen just now. Are you being serious? The EU is protectionist in order to protect the Project. You cannot have a Project if the various regions are unhappy and disgruntled at losing out to competition in the global market. That kind of thing must be stomped and quick-snap. The Project is everything, any benefits to its member states is mere collateral.
No shit Sherlock! Of course it is protectionist of itself. If it didn’t protect its members it will soon be out of business It places high tarrifs on Australian Beef and NZ lamb to protect EU farmers, so they stay in business, conserve our environment and ensure the strategic aim on maintaining the security of our Europe wide food supply. Why is that a such a surprise to anyone? Brexit means we can do that for ourselves- that’s the plus side The down side is, according to fish wholesalers, we can say goodbye to selling fresh fish to Europe. The EU are protectionist remember. This is another shining example of Brexiteers saying it’s all going to be fine.
@noobie pardon me for taking account of U.K. government incompetence Talking about patriotism. Let’s talk about you and your love of a certain Italian brand of motorbike. Got a triumph? Norton? I have a Triumph. It’s my third one. My hifi is mostly made in Britain
You missed my point. The EU protectionism is protecting the Project. The Project. The Project colours the decision-making process and ensures that sound business principles take a back seat to the necessity for keeping the Project together. In fact, every single thing, democracy, honesty, not beating up your own citizens when they protest (in their yellow jackets) - all of this plays second fiddle to protecting the Project. OK. French farmers are protected. How is this decided? By the EU Commission. If the UK believes that some form of reform of tariffs is necessary, in order take advantage of a trade opportunity, if the French farmers are taking the piss with regard to business practices (they have form), the UK as an EU member will find its hands are tied. Outside the EU, the UK can trade elsewhere if beneficial. If the french farmers kick off, we take our custom elsewhere instead of helping paying subsidies to keep their lazy asses solvent. Flexibility is key to a healthy market economy. Protectionism, over the long term, is poison. Protectionism is not a panacea, there are pros and cons to the use of this tool, which should be a short term measure anyway. I would prefer that the UK be in a position to decide for itself on such matters.
You mean like not shooting your own citizens in the back? Bloody Sunday? This is not new but you blame it on the EU That’s another bad argument which is undermining your good arguments If the people who are all for Brexit can’t focus on the good points of Brexit why are they surprised when those against it criticise?
Guys Brexit is a done deal. We are leaving on 29/3z There is no point in continuing with EU bad. Give us something genuinely positive to look forward to as opposed to the pie in the sky crap some of you BELIEVE will happen. and lay off the negative stuff about the EU. It’s so 2018 already! Can you imagine Steve Jobs spending 55 minutes of his hour long iPhone presentation slagging off Samsung?
Or the eu is our saviour? Okay, here goes, in march we will not be liable to face the sanctions that the eu will face from trump as we will not be part of the eu and will be a third country aaannndd, the imf predict a substantial slowdown on growth throughout the eu which for germany is being looked at as a mini recession. Now, is it a good time to remind some that we never signed upto the euro so if one falls the other 26 fall but not us as we use the pound? God no ! he's been dead since 2011, the smell would be as offensive as apple pricing, slowing the batteries down and now the lack of new products.
