You want to listen to some of those radio callers. One of them indeed said that their mother wanted to leave as she "didn't want to be under the jackboot of the Germans any longer". A bloke phoned up today and referred to the EU negotiators as "muppets". He continued with "you lot" to indicate anyone who was on the media. This poll says, to the tune of 65%, that we should just walk away and embrace no deal. I call it as I see it.
So you don't think there people are hand picked by the media for effect You see it as they tell you to say it Do you think the 65% on here that vote to walk with a clean break are all raving morons too because I can tell you now 1 or two of us aren't (or is it 'of them') ………………….
I think you've encapsulated the issue. It's the Them and Us attitude that lies at the heart of the whole Brexit/EU thing. The UK has always seen the EU as other, indeed sees Europeans as "other". I don't think that they see the UK that way. When the Germans say, "Dont leave! We like you! We'll all be the poorer if you go!" The UK just thinks, "Ha! That's about right. How many quid are we putting into this thing?" Many Euro nations love us to bits. That's why they like living in the UK. But for so many Britons it's all about "sides". We're not in this together. The EU is one thing - a fairly evil one at that - and we Brits are another - a nobler thing. "It depends on whose side you're on". But it's not meant to be a binary thing. The Germans have more in common with the Brits than the French, but we never wanted to exploit that. We could have done. We could have made lots of friends (and influenced people...).
Seems to me it is a done deal and other businesses are doing similar things. A personal friend is HR Director for one of the big Insurance companies. Every Christmas my wife and her exchange letters to catch-up on the years events. This years she told us that she had been spending most of her time travelling between the UK and Amsterdam as her business moves a lot of its operations over there as mitigation against No Deal. She said it has been a "massive distraction and cost in time and money" and would cost more than they had spent to undo so won't be reversed even if No Deal doesn't happen. Similar with Barclays. They have spent massive time and effort in preparations ... even just getting the Court Judgement allowing them to do it would be a big investment. Time remaining (no pun intended) is so short and the cost would be so great that they cannot now back-out and reverse plans. Believe what you want but time will tell. And please don't scream "Project Fear" when what you really mean is "I don't believe it"
No, as I said, I just respect the wishes of the nation. If the people here are anything to go by, they reflect the mood of the country. So good luck to you all. I've been more European that British for years. I did languages at school and uni. My interest in languages was not shared. I was half the A level Latin class, half the Spanish class and a quarter of the French class. There wasn't a German class. People in the UK aren't very interested in Europe. Oh, sure, they like to go on occasion and drink the beer/wine, but speak the other people's languages and understand where they are coming from? Not really. It is deeply ironic that a forum full of Italian bike owners should be so anti-EU. Now, if I was on a forum of Harley owners, or even Suzuki owners, I could partially understand it. For me, having a Ducati has always been an expression of my Europhilism. People say they loathe the EU but love Europe, and then they say in the next breath that the Germans connive with the French. So what are you supposed to believe?
Listen to Verhofstadt's machinations in the EU Brexit debate this afternoon to better understand why people don't look favourably on the EU Parliament and all it stands for and the costs. Also other MEPs insinuating that the day after Brexit there will need to be protection on the Irish border to prevent tainted British produce entering the EU.
Yip, mix ups abound with the EU and Europe, and the 'Germans and French' or their politicians abound. I was in the Czech Republic at Christmas and all my Czech wife's friends at a party were discussing Brexit with me being there. They are all quite successful with big houses in the Prague suburbs. Their opinion is we have done the right thing, but they are stuck as a small nation who take financial benefit in cash and profit from the German industry overflow for the cheaper wages. They said they wish they could do the same and respected the British for making a stand. Not that we were all idiots like most remainers portray and you have inferred at times - but being Czech, maybe it's just that they hate Germans too in your eyes The EU council are crass self opinionated bullies and don't deserve to be in power over us...
Appearances can be deceptive? On a sinking ship, you would be foolish to refuse a place in a lifeboat because you weren't certain of its seaworthness?
I'm ish on that. Certainly the U.K. have always sought to never be fully assimilated to the borg collective because we joined under a lie. We were told nonono there will never be a united states of europe and the project will never be more powerful than the 28 but all that changed after maastericht. That has worked to some of the 27's advantage though, many smaller countries that are not in love with every direction the kumbay yah crew want, often stepped in to block things that others also thought was a step to far. Because of this and keeping out of the euro, we have always had one foot in and one foot out. It's not so much them and as as european, brits will always be european, but it explains why some europeans struggle with this, not wanting to follow the eu commission into a federal united states of europe, is not anti european. It's like saying I love my italian bike but hate it's insurance company. Honestly, I think that's part of the eu brainwashing. As mentioned above, the eu commision will infer that to not follow the commission and project is to not like the europeans, far from it. Even the most fervent brexiteers did and continue to say, we dislike and want to leave the eu project but want to stay friends with europe and the europeans, the two are different things
Sure there is that. Not a lot to lose. But JC doesn't want a second referendum. I'm not even sure he wants to stay in the EU. The most important thing for both Lab and Con is to be in power and not to split their parties. Everything else is a purely secondary consideration. That is how JC and May are playing it.
Then why not sign off May's deal? No longer part of the EU project - result! Is the backstop such an awful idea? That's the thing. It's not enough for Brexiteers to leave the project. They want to get as far away as possible from it.
The trouble with the backstop is multiple. Unlike article 50, the backstop does not allow the u.k. to leave the agreement unless the eu approves. The eu keeps saying, we do not intend to use it but won't remove it from the legal text as well as in the same agreement, the end date genuinely is listed as 20XX. The irish government and the eu have said the backstop cannot be temporary otherwise it is not a backstop There are also other issues, whilst on the backstop we would have to continue with abiding by the decisions of the ecj, should the U.K. get a better deal from a country the eu already has a deal with, the eu can block the deal claiming non alingment of standards. The backstop also treats northern ireland as a different country whilst still in the uk, understandably worrying for many who see this as an attempt to allow the republic to gain N.I. and a unified ireland against many in the norths wishes. In short, it is intended to keep the U.K. under the control of the eu, with less legal protection than currently and no foreseable way out whilst splitting the u.k.
Homlessness, long waits at the NHS, crap infrastructure, massive crime increases and http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
And as much as you keep putting those up Jez, almost every people poll has May in front of Jeremy and by a comfortable margin, go figure
