An old Guardian article about the Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. The no voters were deemed ignorant and mocked in the same manner as the Brexit voters. Does make you wonder how much underlying dissatisfaction there is with the EU in Ireland. What part of Ireland’s ‘no’ does the EU not understand? Brendan O’Neill Asking the Irish to vote again on the Lisbon treaty is arrogant, insulting and undemocratic Sat 13 Dec 2008 Imagine if, following the election of Barack Obama by 52.9% of American voters, the Republican party, which got just 45.7% of votes, demanded another election. Imagine if the Republicans described Obama’s victory as a “triumph of ignorance” – brought about by an “unspeakable” and “ignorant” mass of people who should have been “swatted away by the forces of the establishment” – and insisted on holding a second election so that, this time, the voters could “get it right”. There would be uproar, outrage, widespread disgust at such elite disdain for the democratic process. Well, now you know how the Irish people must feel. In June this year, 53.4% of Irish voters rejected the Lisbon treaty, against 46.6% who supported it (giving the “No” camp a “sweeping victory” similar to Obama’s). Yet now the Irish will be asked to vote again. EU officials’ behind-doors deal to force a second referendum in Ireland reveals their utter contempt for Irish voters, and for democracy itself. It is an historic sucker punch against the sovereignty of the people. As soon as the Irish people’s ballots were counted in June, their rejection of Lisbon was treated as the “wrong” answer, as if they had been taking part in a multiple-choice maths exam and had failed to work out that 2+2=4. Now, they will be given a chance to sit the exam again, “until [they] come up with the right answer,” says George Galloway, attacking EU elitism. The notion that the Irish “got it wrong” exposes gobsmacking ignorance about democracy in the upper echelons of the EU. The very fact that a majority of Irish people said no to Lisbon made it the “right answer”, true and sovereign and final. “No” really does mean no. The Irish were subjected to a tirade of slanderous abuse when they dared to reject officials’ carefully crafted and profound (in truth, overlong and turgid) document on the future of the EU. One Brussels official described them as “ungrateful bastards”, on the basis that Ireland has received lots of handouts from the EU and thus should be more obedient to its paymaster. Pro-EU commentators blamed “populist demagogues” for cajoling the Irish into voting no, and said the EU’s plans should not be “derailed by lies and disinformation”. It was widely claimed that the Irish simply didn’t understand the treaty, and may have been confused by its “technocratic, near incomprehensible language” (well, they are ignorant Paddies, after all). Some claimed that the Irish mistakenly, possibly even illegitimately, had used the referendum to register disgruntlement with their own ruling parties. Margot Wallström, vice-president of the European Commission, said officials should try to “work out what the Irish people had really been voting against”. I would have thought that was obvious: they were handed the Lisbon treaty; they said no to it. We’ve been here before. When French and Dutch voters rejected the European constitution in 2005 (and according to Valery Giscard d’Estaing, the current Lisbon treaty is the “same as the constitution”), they were sneeringly insulted by their betters in Brussels. Neil Kinnock said it was a “triumph of ignorance”. Andrew Duff, Liberal Democrat MEP, labelled the “rejectionists” as an “odd bunch of racists, xenophobes, nationalists, communists, the disappointed centre left and the generally pissed off”. He asked whether it is wise to “submit the EU Constitution to a lottery of uncoordinated national plebiscites”. Clearly not, since the plebs might just reject it. The EU’s attempts to force the constitution/Lisbon treaty through despite its democratic rejection, and now their offer of a few addendums to the Irish people, make it come across as a corrupt, archaic oligarchy, ensconced in its palaces, looking down at the people of Europe as a strange, dumb, untrustworthy blob. All of the Irish people I know remain passionate about the idea of Europe. Even those who rejected Lisbon think of Ireland as European, and have travelled, worked and made friends on the continent. It is not Europe that they rejected in the referendum in June, but a document produced by a cut-off and aloof European elite, those cosmopolitan poseurs who are in reality distrustful of Europe’s masses, whether it’s the thick Irish, the xenophobic French, or the mysterious Turks. The Irish were being properly European; the EU is being merely elitist.
always going to be an issue to resolve, yes a problem? only if the eu wanted it to be. Where it not for the gfa it would be black and white but, the gfa gives the eu an out if it wanted to use it for the irish situation, a true exemption if ever their was one. The trouble with the backstop and one both irish and eu officials have both said must be permanent if used, means that no one can ever leave the eu, ever, even if a nations people have voted to leave and the eu through article 50 says we can leave. Leave was never dependent on the deal again, the vote was to leave, not leave depending on a deal the eu allows us I'm not sure this is correct. Most movements even within the eu require advance notification of loads in lorries, content, N.I. itself still carries out many checks on lorries and people under various agreements now. All the eu and remainers have said is, that won't work only our way with the backstop will Trouble is, the eu seem to want it both ways, one minute they say it is a very special situation due to the gfa and then say like every eu border it must be a hard border. The irish border is not the problem it has been made to be, it IS the last card the eu have to stop brexit and they are playing a very dangerous game of bluff right before the european parliament elections, people like verhofstadt are up for election in a few weeks but none of the commission are
This makes me laugh. Its only when the EU does this in negotiations that this is a problem for Leavers. Yet, it is exactly the same 'dangerous' game that the UK Government is playing. Both living in denial of the facts and in the glib hope that they can out bluff the other side.
This isn't bluff on the U.K.'s side JB, we had a democratic vote, the democratic majority vote voted to leave. In it's simplest of terms the eu is trying to stop that and would find a way of doing it for any country that attempts to leave even if it involves overriding an entire nations democracy and peoples wishes
If so, why has the UK Government not shown us the 'tech' they say is available for a no hard border? Obvious really, it doesnt exist. Not if we are wanting to control immigration. Need to face the facts that the electronic controls can only monitor vehicles, not content, not people. Our Government cant lie straight in bed when it comes to this. Billybullshiters the lot of them.
can only monitor vehicles, not content...... my understanding is that at the moment even within the eu, checks only happen at around 4%. People control, fair point, that is more likely to happen when leaving n.i. if seeking to go onwards to the mainland uk using the current and in place since 2014, gull arrangement but would require an increased force on that side. What does worry me jb is many remainers like yourself, overlook that a nation has taken a democratic vote and the eu are trying to stop it. The eu isn't even a country, it's a management team for the 28 but many remainers seem to be of the mind , pah democracy and democratic votes, so over rated, why is that?
NO! He said that ROI has legal obligations under its membership of the EU. That is very different from saying that the EU will force Ireland to break the GFA.
Yes In order to comply with the legal trade agreements of the eu, the republic will have to overide the legal agreements of the good friday agreement. If you are saying the eu are not forcing them to do that, then are they doing it of their own choice?
Perhaps the combination of an extremely marginal vote and the total change of tune from the 'soft' brexit touted by the campaigners to the extreme version now being demanded. Could that be why?
We don't know who is doing what yet. It's total chaos. Do you obey the law only because you are forced to? Do you not feel any obligation of your own?
is eu membership worth over ruling this and any future national democratic votes and at what point do we then live in a democracy if a non people elected commission, can over rule 28 nations and its people?
Just caught this. I love you Dukey. Keep it up. Wrong. The next generation X-Trail was to be built in Kyushu as well as in Sunderland. EU diesel regulations have killed the diesel market in Europe since the decision to build the X-Trail in Sunderland was made in Oct 2016 (post Brexit vote, you may notice). So it now no longer makes sense as Kyushu can make the requied global demand, the X-Trail manufacturing has not been moved into the EU. So the EU regulations killed this model off, not Brexit. Yes, Brexit uncertainty. NOT Brexit. Do keep up. Once again, this is all to do with the changing Diesel market Not one jot. Except plenty of vehicles continue to be manufactured here with new models being allocated. The Nissan Sunderland plant exports into many markets without free trade agreements in place. The devaluing of Sterling has more than offset any tarrif that may well apply going forward........ By the way, did you notice, England beat Ireland 32-20 in the rugby in Dublin at the weekend..............despite Brexit? How did that happen Simon?
So Norway, the Swiss, customs union etc were never mentioned by the leave campaign? I don’t remember that Cameron was part of the leave campaign. Maybe my memory is almost as bad as you guys’
