When I say "us", I mean of course the elites, the corporatists and the political class in general. Hmm. I really don't see why UK politicians should be voting themselves over-inflation pay rises now. They actually need pay cuts, to reflect the fact they are only part-timers and basically unskilled lackeys part-timers at that. Mere go-fors and errand-boys. Minimum wage sounds about right.
I like that idea. Start the politicians on minimum wage so they know what it’s like and award pay rises if they do something (was going to put useful next but just something will do). Though they’d just raise minimum wage. And no expenses. And and...
Years ago, an MP was paid the same rate as a Civil Service Executive Officer - broadly speaking, an EO is one rung above an Administrative Officer (AO) and two rungs up from the most junior of Civil Service grades (Administrative Assistant - AA). I believe the time has come to restore parity with the EO grade, if not the Administrative Officer grade. As MPs are no longer movers and shakers for the country but instead the equivalent of clerks and messengers, there is no longer any justification for their comparatively enormous salaries and extraordinarily out-sized expenses allowances. I shall write to my constituency MP errand boy for his thoughts on this. Not that he has had an original thought in all the time since he took his Seat.
The Uk is going to have to ensure its prosperity by negotiating separate trade deals with the EU, US and China. In all these negotiations it will be very much the junior partner so it’s not likely to “play hardball” just likely to end up with an unsatisfactory deal that furthers US, China or EU interests. You’d have to be a bit bonkers to think that the UK will be in a stronger bargaining position post Brexit. For example, Trump wants to punish countries who have not adopted new US sanctions against Iran but he doesn’t dare punish the EU because it’s too big. He’ll be down on the UK like a ton of bricks post Brexit. He won’t be our bessie mate - as if you’d want Trump as a Bessie mate. I just think that Brexiteers should be honest about their position. That position is that in return for Westminster being able, in theory, to make more rules independently of the EU, the country will be economically far worse off. It’s a trade-off. There will be no baking of a cake and then scoffing it alone. That isn’t how the world works. We’ll be replacing our supposed subservience to the EU with genuine subservience to the US and China. In actuality we’ll just become the 51st US State. Brexiteers could at least say that they think that that will be an improvement because that is what they are fighting for.
That just what the CNN article lays out with quotes. Of course the Brexit Bunch know this is all fear mongering and lies. The suggestion the US/ UK deal will be conditional on our not signing trade deals with countries the USA refer to as non market countries, C(hina & Iran?) doesn't seem consistent with "Taking back control" but maybe its just fake news... https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/01/business/us-uk-trade-deal-brexit/index.html
From the start the Government should have made clear what they saw as Brexit. All we have ever heard is the 'Leave means Leave' slogan. And that is because they have no idea of what Leave does actually mean. They never have because the Brexit that the ERG want, is one that will make Britain hard to govern as it will run out of money. But some Tories have been too scared to stand up for what they believed in, at least until its too late. I still don't believe that whatever happens in the next few months, that the Govt or indeed the Tory party will stay intact. I'm pretty sure we will have a GE at some point this year.
Glidd, without wanting to get too far down the rabbit hole, I think you are arguing from the usual EUrophile position, which is working with only one side of the Remain equation. To illustrate, the Remain position seems to be that the trade deals the UK is part of as a member of the EU are somehow the baseline for all deals. There is a Remainder assumption that as part of the EU trade bloc, the UK enjoys trading terms which are, if not truly good, then truly as good as it gets. This may or may not be true in isolation from other aspects of the Leave/Remain argument but - here's the thing: the trade issue is not isolated. It is merely one aspect of the issue. It is entirely intuitive to state that it is only as a part of a large trading bloc that the UK can achieve the best deals - the greater your "strength" the greater your bargaining power. It's practically axiomatic. This however is only one half of the equation - maybe even less than that. The EU is not simply a trading bloc. We don't just get deals with other global traders for our membership. We get administered by the EU. We pay enormous sums to the EU. We get a fraction of these enormous sums back but these refunds are spent in accordance with what the EU decrees, not what the people of the UK as a whole want. The direction of trade, social structure, infrastructure, soon to be raising of taxes, membership of the EU Army ... this is all as decreed by the EU. The integration will only get closer and tighter over time. The ability of EU member states to resist the change, and the rate of change, will be eroded. Is being eroded. Member states which a. adopted the Euro and b. aren't Germany, are helpless to resist the EU in any direction it chooses to go in. When looking at the balance sheet for trade deals, you need to look at the other side of the equation. I believe that Remainders could at least say what they think about what they are fighting for when they fight to Remain in the EU. They should be honest about their position.
while it contradicts my position on the uk i think they are arguing for somthing like this https://munguin.wordpress.com/2019/03/01/its-as-simple-as-a-mug-of-peppermint-tea/ . aye, global free trade sound good, but yer relying and more dependent on the policies of the other contries we are compeeting with. how is that taking back controle?
It was fairly clear to most people I think. Stay a part of the EU. Leave the EU. From memory the referendum was called because basically the uk said we can’t change the EU so do you want to leave ? I think @Loz explains it better than I can ( see above) but a look at where the EU is heading would make a lot of people want to leave.
Sheeple though ... they'll want to stay in the EU, come Hell or High Water. Also, people who are fully intent upon retiring to the Continent, no matter what the cost to folks who cannot or will not leave the UK. Those wannabe expats are happy to say "Fuck you" to any number of Brits who are utterly irrelevant to their plans. Talk about single-minded!
It the UK Remains in the EU, these wannabe expats have no worries over whether they can retire as planned to their chosen EU region. They may even acquire all the same rights as someone who was born in that region. This is all highly desirable. If the UK leaves the EU, some or all of the rights of wannabe expats in their chosen EU region are, potentially, at risk. Even if that risk is vanishingly small, these wannabe expats are prepared, happy even, for any amount of ruination visited upon the UK by the EU if that means that the wannabe expats can rest easy in their villas, or whatever. The thought that EU membership can be harmful to the UK is utterly irrelevant compared to their own desires and plans. As long as their own retirement plans are secure, the UK can burn itself to the ground for all they care. As far as I can tell, anyway. None of these wannabe expats have said any different to make me doubt my assessment.
Probably because their pensions & health care options that they have paid for their entire life will be affected if Brexit turns out to be an economic disaster? Then theres their families & friends who will still be in the UK and the possibility that they might wish to return to the UK themselves. Reasonable causes for concern.
Really? Then why am I wasting my time debating with a load of die-hard Brexiteers if I care not a stuff about the UK? And I'm a hardline expat. I'm so expat I have no intention of returning to the UK and never have had. I've got the foreign nationality to prove it. But I care about the UK. I have many friends there and there are all sorts of good things about it. As for "ruination visited upon the UK by the EU", what is this "ruination"? How is the EU "ruining" the country? How is the EU preventing the UK from being a paradise?
Reasonable causes for concern for them yes. Not being funny but isn’t the short answer Personal reasons - sod the rest ?
I'll write my position in a couple of sentences: "Things in the UK aren't that shit, and the things that are shit have nothing to do with the EU. In fact, the shitty things about the UK - the income disparity, the crappy infrastructure, the clogged roads and ropey bathrooms - have bugger all to do with the EU." None of these things will improve post Brexit.
