Hardly dubz, we had over 40 years of being lied to that it was only ever going to be a trade body, not a federal state
Fin, scottish politics like scottish football stays within it's little pond and north of the wall, to come south would see an inevitable abject failure
I have my reservations about Farage, always have, but wagging the disapproving finger at him because he was involved in the world of finance, especially by those same people who hold Emmanuel Macron up as some liberal beacon of light, is once again hugely hypocritical. From wikipedia: Macron was born in Amiens and studied philosophy at Paris Nanterre University, completed a Master's of Public Affairs at Sciences Po and graduated from the École nationale d'administration (ENA) in 2004. He worked as a senior civil servant at the Inspectorate General of Finances and later became an investment banker at Rothschild & Cie Banque. Farage may not be liked by some, but one thing he's genuinely exceptionally good at is public speaking and bringing a crowd on board whilst doing so. The last political figure head we had like that was Tony Blair back in his hay day (pre-Iraq), not an ideal comparison as both are divisive characters but it shows whats missing with todays current crop. None of them are anywhere near as good as these two for public speaking, and whilst Farage's party might be small and only about the possible upcoming EU elections at this time, I dare say when Brexit gets reversed (as i believe it will), his party will grow and as Labour and the Tories are likely to split down the middle, He could springboard from this to actually have a chance of being the main opposition, if not actually leading the country or at least being part of a coalition gov.
Lol, my point is not on the virtue of the EU or lack there of but, that that people use their vote to make a protest rather than vote for what they want. It changes nothing other than getting you what you don’t want, unless all you want to do is protest. Brexit sums that up nicely tbh. The old lie is dead long live the new lie.
So then Brexit: What Happens Now? Well I've just heard on the Radio that apparently TM has been discussing with her advisors how to plan for a 2nd referendum, but with a 3 way choice Now, given it could be 3 choices i can only presume they'll be the following: 1: Withdraw Article 50 (remain as we are) 2: Leave under TM's original WA Deal, or the fudged WA deal that she & JC are unlikely to get passed 3: Leave under WTO and No deal How about we discuss these? 1: Withdraw Article 50 (remain as we are) Needs no discussion, thats easy and in reality nobody, even those of a spiteful nature within the EU membership can do anything about it. Case closed. Caveat: This being a choice would still mean all parties would have to go ahead with the EU elections, as if it was the winning vote those MEP's would need to be in place wouldn't they? 2: Leave under her original WA Deal, or the fudged WA deal between TM & JC Her original WA deal is dead in the water, so lets discuss the fairytale version of a Corbyn and May Fudge. Corbyn wants a permanent CU, May apparently is offering a temporary version (how temporary i don't know). Why would anyone in parliament sign off on Corby's permanent version? For a start we'd be tied to the EU surely, with no room to strike our own trade deals, so it wouldn't appeal to Brexiters. And because there would be absolutely no benefit of leaving at all, why would any remainers vote for it as they'd rather just stay as we are? Additionally, unless I'm missing something, whatever changes JC & TM agree, wouldn't they also have to be agreed by the EU? The same EU that's already stated they wouldn't re-open talks? Im genuinely confused by the whole thing as they know this, so why try to keep up the appearance that they don't? Caveat: As with option 1, surely the EU elections would need to go ahead? Depending on what sort of new WA 'could be' agreed, even though nobody thinks it will be.....again this confuses me 3: Leave under WTO and No deal Now this would be interesting and the obvious choice for Brexiteers given the 3 suggested options above. If this 2nd referendum actually does take place, and WTO is an option, then someone of authority would have to make perfectly clear the full duty and tariff rates along with any new commodity codes required. Businesses would need time to asses their current purchase patterns with suppliers inside and outside of the EU and see what the balance is at the end, possibly investigate new supply lines and renegotiate with existing EU partners. For me this is interesting as its purely a math exercise to start with, until any future (currently unknown) trade deals are struck with parties outside of the EU, and of course a return to negotiations with the EU themselves but from an entirely different angle. But who could be trusted to deliver such detailed information honestly?
The fudged deal could pass through the HoC if enough Remainers are afraid that the UK might otherwise Leave on WTO, same goes if enough Leavers think we might otherwise Remain. Most polls (worthless as they are) suggest if there is a referendum vote the UK will Remain.
Unless there is a panic within labour and the tories in regards to getting another public kick in in the euro elections so they rush a fudged deal, then I suspect both sides are waiting to see what actually does happen in the euros. as to damo's 3 options, I'm going to reply to them out of sync option 2 an agreed fudge by both the main parties will be a stitch up to protect those parties and not the country and will inevitably lead to a worse deal than we have now. We've been told the irish border is the problem, it is not for the U.K. However in a fudge if they allow a customs area inclusion, it deals with trade but still leaves the issue of free movement of people. So, any fudge deal will be substantially worse than what we have and we will have no say in when that deal finishes but also leaves us talking about brexit as unfinished business as there would have been no conclusions, just temporary fixes option 1 Remain is undoubtedly better than a half arsed fudge deal. The downside is democracy fails as we know it. Bringing it back to it's bare bones, if you have democratic national peoples majority votes and mp's refuse not only to abide by them but openly go against them, then we have something similar to a venezuelan government where the people no longer matter Option 3 despite being called no deal, it has a deal. Most of us have been in business or work where you get to a point that no matter how much you try, it is never going to work so you simply go your own way and make a change you wanted all along. It would not be as has been portrayed, a cliffs edge. Most brexiteers know the reset costs are the same for setting up our own versions of everything the eu currently does whether we go wto or fudge deal. It's also the bit that remainers struggle with, we voted to leave the eu and it was never tied to a deal. A deal would have been nice but the only one the eu wants to offer is worse than we have, so just leave, as per the majorities peoples democratic vote asked for This leaves us, if it goes to a second vote (which has it's own problems for democracy) a clear choice between vote leave and remain. Should leave lose, they would have some justification for best of 3 given how often the remainers have said "democracy didn't stop with one vote"
If the UK fails to leave the EU, where would you guys suggest as an alternative place to live that isn’t in the EU, nor the US of A, China nor Russia, and also isn’t anywhere likely to be invaded by them any time soon?
If you don't speak any foriegn languages, Australia, NZ & Canada have to be top of the list? If you do speak another lingo then there!
NZ? No way, I want to live in a secular society, not a wannabe ME country. Canada needs to get rid of its Marxist/woman-botherer PM before I will set foot there.
I would go to the antartic but it's full of researchers and scientists with the buildings and petrol engined vehicles telling us that everyone who isn't on antartica, is the problem
Channel Islands wouldn't appeal to me and I think (I don't know) that its difficult to get to live in Jersey, plus they have a 40mph speed limit! If you want to live outside the EU but near, I have lived in Andorra & Switzerland, both are great places especially if you like ski-ing!
