Well, he'd defo be out of a job in the next parliament, and probably before if he did that. So he won't.
Guys, There is a massive difference between taxation on income (which people will earn), taxation of investment gains on financial securities (which many of you are talking about) and taking an arbitrary amount of DEPOSITORS money out of their account. 1. It breaches trust in banks 2. It goes against the heirarchy of creditors - hence making a mockery of risk/return 3. Ordinary people aren't speculating by putting their money in the bank in Cyprus - they just LIVE THERE!!!! You want to try and target "moral" issues like Russian money laundering (a legitimate issue), you don't do it like this. You clamp down on money laundering - or you put a withholding tax on the transfers for those unable to provide adequate support for the transactions legitimacy (like the FATCA US tax) etc, or similar - but you don't just take money from people once the cash is already there without notice or reason. The only reason there isn't a bank run (yet) is that they have forcibly shut the banks. Now they are frantically trying to renegotiate. Sod the few people who are living abroad (who might legitimately also have a grievance, or not, depending on your point of view), this is about the EU project taking a significant turn for the worse in terms of financial and banking confidence. As I said - want to try and run an economy in Europe without a banking system? Who's up for that job then? Barter economy anyone? Collapse to the middle ages? Banking crises are a feature of the banking system and they will always recur from time to time. The issue is how you deal with them. The EU project had a very black day here...... the press is catching up...... but they know they have messed up now. The fundamental truth is that there is little cross border confidence between neighbouring countries within the EU. It is not a homogenous block, and there is little trust between nation states (mainly northern/Germanic and southern/civil/Latin states). Therefore there is no political popular will for a banking union. And you cannot have open cross border capital flows, fixed exchange rates, separately managed government policies and not have cross border banking transfers. It's impossible.
But if he did, how do you stop it?......You know as well as I do, a new / replacement government never reverses legislation a previous government introduced, despite not supporting or criticising it before it becomes law, because it is all about screwing the population as much as possible....
What happens when one of the other Euro states in trouble decides that their situation is also "unique and desperate" like that of cyprus. This is a dangerous precedant and takes us all closer to the point where the confidence in money evaporates. We can't of course all take our money out of the banks because its not there. Agree totally with the suggestion here that this might be a good time for Britain to take a stand and try to regain the moral high ground and attract cash inwards.
In case you haven't noticed, bricks and mortar in the UK incur annual property taxes (Council Tax), transfer taxes (Stamp Duty), rental taxes (Income Tax) and appreciation taxes (Capital Gains Tax), among others, and equivalent similar taxes in other countries. So your idea of taking money out of bank deposits and putting it into properties in order to avoid paying tax seems to have a bit of a flaw ...
See my post no. 18, Ian. I note that you have carefully avoided mentioning interest rates, or indicating which of the available options you think should have been adopted and why. The UK is not a homogeneous block either. Incidentally, what do you mean by fixed exchanged rates? The Danish krone is fixed to the Euro, but generally speaking the main currencies are free to float nowadays and exchange rates are not fixed; so what could you be talking about? One more thing - stop panicking! This is not the end of civilised life as we know it.
Pete, if you don't take your tongue out of your cheek occasionally, it'll get stuck there. Oh ... too late! :biggrin: Clearly, Mr Biker's desire is to avoid his savings disappearing or evaporating in a banking crash (or, if you're some people, being stolen by the government :tongue. Your mention of property taxation is tangential (and cheeky). :wink:
You seem to have forgotten what happened in Iceland in 2008. The Icelandic banks were overstretched and collapsed. Their deposits were far greater than the Icelandic economy, so their government could not bail them out. Depositors lost most of their deposits. Some smaller UK depositors in Icelandic banks were reimbursed by the UK government, others lost their money. Did this lead to "confidence in money evaporating"? Well no, not really. The current Cyprus crisis is much smaller, with much more limited effects; and Cyprus has been given a bailout from overseas, thanks to fortunately being in the Eurozone.
It seems to me that some people are looking at the whole EU, UK and USA situation with rose coloured glasses.......... ......they obviously can't see that there is a continuing downward spiral which is irreversible. AL.
There were five major recessions in the 20th century. The current 21st century one has lasted longer and the recovery is slower, but it is not the deepest and it started from a much higher base. The 20th century ones affected the whole industrialised world, but in the current one there are several major economies still growing strongly. I take your point about rose-coloured glasses, but on the other hand it is still a bit soon to go for mass suicides.
I'm not simply referring to economies and recessions..........Give it one or two more generations, what quality of people will be forming governments...? AL
How do you mean? Probably the same quality which has formed them for ages - Oxbridge graduates often enough.
Cyprus is - or has been - a tax haven. People put their money there because various taxes have been deliberately set low, and the government is too small and weak to be able to scrutinise what goes on. But inevitably when financial institutions go belly up, the small government cannot afford bailouts and guarantees. In the light of the current crisis in Cyprus, once the penny drops perhaps there will be a flight away from tiny tax havens and back to depositing in larger, more stable jurisdictions.
Unless the rules for getting into uni have dramatically changed since my day; there aren't going to be enough graduates to become politicians........and from what I have seen, the current glut can't spell, have no common sense or responsibilty......hardly statesman like (could be graduates or politicians that I'm talking about).... ........so unless the standards of education rise very rapidly, in about two generations time the government will probably consist of people that couldn't even pass the 11 plus (if it existed). AL
There was a dead cat bounce in 2009 and the economy has flatlined ever since, there is no recovery (so talking about double dip, tripple dip or any other kind of recession doesn't make sense). I suspect the five major recessions that you refer to each had some catalyst to help the recovery; rearmament, reconstruction, trade agreements, deregulation or new technology. Without a major restructuring of our economy away from buying votes and back to wealth creation, and there is little evidence to suggest that this is happening, I think the downward spiral that Arquebus refers to may well turn out to be a one way ride.
At least someone understands where I'm coming from and where we are going.... ...Pete obviously doesn't have the same view as I; despite us being two years apart, having good educations and qualifications, so I confess I am a little surprised that he takes the view that A will be OK in the end. .....could it be that entirely different professions give us an alternative view of the current state of affairs? I bet Pete was a member of the debating society at school or uni and was able to convince people of his view using his notable skills and knowledge....... .......whereas if someone didn't agree with me, I sacked them (or in extreme circumstances, I gave them a thump :wink AL
I dont think I was referring to dodging tax, I think maybe your missing my point, which is not tax avoidance but making the money potentially 'safer'. When Northen Rock hit problems and depositors were outside in ques down the street I would lay odds on some not putting money back in the trust of Banks or Building Societies. So looked at that way, property 'could' be safer in the long term. If the keys to the Bank are taken away then who is to say that a much larger % may be taken away? I may be completely wrong and nowhere near as knowledgeable as some on here (who sound as though they understand the world Banking system and I dont..) but is the guarantee against losing money not set at a maximum £85k in the UK? So to someone with considerably larger sums may just be a bit nervous about Banks at the moment....with or without Stamp Duty, et al..
The subject under discussion in the thread was imposing taxes on bank deposits, J Biker. Popelli posted: "maybe when its time to bail the other pigs countries out they could tax all the eu bank acounts rather than just the country concened" You responded: "I can see this as a distinct possibility. Depositors already are uneasy about large cash investments/bank accounts and probably part the reason for so many buy to let properties, its harder to take away bricks and mortar IMO." Now you say: "I dont think I was referring to dodging tax." OK, whatever.
I have not said I think everything will all be OK in the end. It may not be. I certainly don't imagine there is some automatic process or invisible hand which will make everything all right by itself. My point is that I disapprove of the headless chicken approach: flapping, panicking, raving, ignoring facts, and predicting Armageddon tomorrow. Crises need people with clear heads to make sensible and well-considered decisions, and such are not to be found in the media. If a decision is made to take some action which is apparently the best option from the range of available options, I tend to support that decision. Most decisions have downsides, but the other options might have much worse ones.
