Hey Loz, not my problem if you find the facts funny. Be honest though, the mess we have now is because we have a weak government with no majority.
I started coughing eventually : o ) We are in this mess not because of weak government but because of dishonest, authoritarian, manipulative, diversionary weak government.
Each party publishes a manifesto going into a General Election, and the manifestos set out a collection of hopes and wishes, intentions and promises, plans and dreams, policies and lies, commitments and fantasies. If a party wins the election and goes into government, it is entitled to try to pass legislation, and act executively in accordance with the manifesto - entitled but not obliged. For parties which do not win and go into opposition, the rejected manifesto falls away and they begin to prepare a new manifesto on different lines for the next election, which they hope will find more favour with voters. Plans rarely survive contact with reality, and manifesto commitments very often turn out to be unachievable, unaffordable, undesirable, unsuccessful, and/or unpopular. As time passes, they are ever more likely to be overtaken by events. That's life and that's politics.
So Parties can basically lie their tits off and say what they like just to get into power and then dismiss all that’s said in their manifesto by saying it’s unachievable/unaffordable etc as you say ? And that’s Politics ? Why the fcuk should anyone vote then if that’s the case ?
I agree. Is it that it’s easier now ( thanks to the internet) to see that politicians are lying to get a vote ?
It's a bit like the matrix More and more are becoming unplugged and seeing what is going on but you will always have those with closed minds as they need to feel safe and taken care of within the very system that takes the piss out of them
I think most people have always known that, but the internet has certainly aided the awakening . I think that’s why there’s so much disinterest in voting, and why should they be ? Nothing ever changes no matter what they say they will do when they get into power . Politics hopefully will change for the better after all this mess has highlighted the ineptitude of the self serving bastards ...
Yes, if politics doesn’t change then will we see more votes for the likes of Trump and Zelensky, non politicians
The only fact, is that the 2016 referendum was advisory only That, as rafa might say, is fact. It's interesting that the same group vehemently upholding the +1 vote in any democracy being absolute, are happy to deny fact when it doesn't suit them. They are also happy to ignore the fact, and it is a fact, that farage on more than one occasion pre-referendum stated that leaving the EU didn't mean leaving the customs Union or single market. That was decided as government policy only afterwards, so the population as a whole have had this thrust upon them by the elected politicians. No problem at all to this very vocal group, yet they are also vehemently and vocally tanting about it being anti democratic when the very same elected political house vote against this policy dictated upon by government. It is clear that many people voted for brexit, and also remain, ignorant of the reasons for, or effects of the vote. One person at least famously thought they were voting to stop participating in the euro vision song contest. Most are ignorant of the fact that credit card charges will be rolled back out pronto, and only wealthy or foolish will be using the Internet whilst on holidays in benidor. Successive govts have been allowed to claim credit for eu law benefitting the population over the profit books of the multinationals and their lobby groups. Blue flag beaches? Thing of the past Illegality of raw sewage release? Thing of the past. The eu had done more for the living standards of the average punter than any tory or ukipper. Immigration has gone up again this month, its just non European. If the government had decided at the start, before calling a GE, to run a second referendum based upon hard brexit vs customs union and single market membership, with accurate information provided about the pros and cons of each, I have no doubt that the UK would be under less existential threat, and happily trading away, with a stable govt. Anyhow, its a hard brexit echo chamber in here. Noone will change their mind, just shout louder. Like the brexit debate in general.
I'm afraid the selective acceptance has rather been on your part Did you not see the prime minister and multiple remain ministers and politicians from all sides, make it clear it would be acted upon? A reminder for your blinkered eyes, try 3.45 onwards If remainers believed it was advisory only so would see no change, why did 16.6 million of them go to the polling stations and vote remain, could you answer that please? Either they were incredibly silly or you have convinced yourself of something else that others could see as clear as day As to the rest of your project fear, it didn't work in 2016 so unlikely to work now
It doesn't matter what Farage said he wasn't an MP the government ministers of the day made it quite clear, we would be out of the customs union and the single market.
Farage would also like to do away with the NHS and allow people to carry hand guns. Shall we have a referendum on that? Anywya, I shall sit and happily watch the Tory party tear itself yet another arsehole over the coming weeks. The blood letting is going to be severe and there is a fair chance it may not survive this intact.
Members of the public express their opinions continually in opinion polls, for and against parties, candidates, and policies. No-one expects their opinions thus expressed to be necessarily acted upon or regarded as binding, but people like to express their views, have an input, and take an interest in the poll results, i.e. snapshots of public opinion at a given moment. Government ministers often make speeches, in Parliament or elsewhere, declaring what government policy is at the moment. And just as often government policies are reversed, modified, delayed, expedited, abandoned, blocked by the courts, or kicked into the long grass. A policy is a policy until it isn't. This is not nuclear physics, by the way - more a statement of the bleedin' obvious.
People getting married swear solemnly to stick together for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, for life. People borrowing money promise faithfully to pay it back. People entering into contracts undertake to supply goods and services as agreed. I have sad news for you @Sprocker . Couples often break up, debtors often default on their debts, and contracts often fail to be fulfilled. This may come as a disappointment, but human beings are fallible, circumstances change, and politics is no different from any other human interaction. Sorry about that. Yet hope springs eternal, and folk still get married, lend money, exchange contracts, and vote in elections.
I get that Pete I do, polls are always going on. Most polls however are between 1,000-1,300 and not over 33.5 million. The point still remains unanswered though, why if remainers thought it was a non actionable referendum, did 16.1 million turn out to vote remain in a poll some claim was never going to be counted? Why are so many of those same people denying the multiple videos and campaign media that clearly shows it would be actioned upon and leaving the single market and the customs union. You could forgive a few thousand not knowing but 16.1 million remainers? come on now I doubt anyone would disagree with you. It's the belief and insistence by some that this has never happened before brexit or since. I would agree with you which is why my last entry before this agree's with you there too
Absolutely nobody has ever said, or imagined, that the referendum poll "... was never going to be counted". Absolutely everybody knew that it was going to be counted, that the results would be widely published, and that the figures, whatever they were, of this advisory poll would be taken into consideration along with many other considerations. It would have been possible (and far preferable) to have set up the referendum as a legally binding poll, but the decision was taken, very clearly and specifically, not to have a binding poll. That is why the electoral laws which apply strictly to all binding elections did not apply to the 2016 referendum; gross violations of electoral law, which in a Parliamentary Election would have led to a re-run of the vote and criminal sanctions for the perpetrators, resulted in no such action in this case. It is particularly offensive that there was a tactic of waiting until after the vote had taken place on a clearly advisory basis, and only then transmogrifying it into a supposedly binding, irrevocable, irreversible expression of the "will of the people".
I read these messages as another emphasis of how times and opinions change and as a result it's reasonable to assume that the opinion of the country has changed, like manifestos and marriage vows. I take from that that any indication of this change of mood on Brexit is why we should remain. But at what point do anything get actioned. Even if the mood has changed surely that just means we wait for it to change again, and then wait for it to change again and again. Let's action Brexit now and if anyone wants to put the EU in their manifesto later they can. Then if they get elected on the promise of rejoining the EU they can ignore their promise as will be their want cos they will have achieved power and things change. TB
