It’s not Us v Them. It’s how we deal with the same European and Global issues. Puttin affects us, Trump affects us, Xi Jinping affects us and we aren’t Russia, US of A Or China either. So it’s very valid to compare our economic progress and anticipated growth with similar economies around us. Unless you just want to select bad news stories?
If I am honest I have seen so much of these sort of arguments I have given up, someone puts up a ‘Brexit has caused this’ statement and then someone else will say why it hasn’t or how other members of the EU are having similar problems. Things like the EU’s new trade deal - which on the face of it looks damaging to current EU members.
I just looked at the poll at the top of the page. Does anyone know if we did in fact leave the EU on 29th March 2019?
I think these deals are being hurried through to try and pressure the UK, but quite how and who thinks it would I am not sure - can't see another reason. Clearly the Japanese deal was going to affect the UK badly in or out of the EU, it's a strange move after 20 years of discussions to do this one now too...
Sure - we're all tired (and a little irrascible) at this stage, but it's far too important...? You're second point bursts that well-versed Brexiter point about EU Protectionsism then surely? I imagine the EU sees more upside than downside, and it certainly greatly extends trading opportunities for EU member states.
Don't need a plan until we leave, as currently there is nothing to plan against - Remoaners have done sooooo much damage
I tire easily now Always two sides / viewpoints to these issues. Why stay in the EU if it isn’t protecting the farmers ? Can you remind me what the brexiteer protectionism argument was.
In it's simplest terms, think mafia if you paid a fee every year, part of that fee was ensuring your own industries survived by applying huge tariffs on other countries selling the same stuff, so your market became too expensive to sell too unless you were in the club.
Brexiters have argued that the EU is a protectionist organisation and that we'd be able to negotiate better deals outside of the EU. In truth, every trading bloc tries to protect it's own industries (that is just natural self-interest) but it's a trade-off (no pun intended) between that and encouraging overall economic growth through more global trade.
One post-No Deal scenario suggested is that we slash all tarriffs - as close to zero as reasonably possible - to replace the trade we currently do with the EU by trading with the rest of the world. But of course that would mean our home industries competing with the developing world where labour / production costs are much lower. To compete they would need to lower their own costs dramatically - which implies lower wages etc etc.
The farming part is called CAP, the Common Agriculture Policy. This is the eu's own simple guide to it Look at the 5 parts they list and then think, how does that deal with south america, meet those 5 points, if any at all? https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farm...cies/common-agricultural-policy/cap-glance_en
On the first point - who knows, no one seems to have really tried. On the second point the EU is potentially failing then, I had a look for a bit of history about their latest deal. First thing I found was on the SFU site from 2011 - basically saying we must stop this deal.
Simply put - we haven't needed to do so, being part of the EU... We only need to embark on all this shenanigans if we leave, and lose access to the markets we currently have as Members. (incl. now the Japan and South American markets). Generally speaking though, you get good trade deals by having something to bargain with / offer. If we unilaterally lowered tarriffs post-No Deal we'd actually have very little bargaining power, as countries would already have largely tarriff free access...
Like I say, it's a trade-off. Presumably the EU sees more upside than downside, but it may be true that Agriculture struggles to compete in decades to come. IF that is so, then it actually just confirms the point that Brexiters saying "we can just trade with the rest of the world instead" is actually a bit of a fallacy... perhaps we would not be able to compete on equal terms with much of the developing / emerging regions. Brexiters moan about the protectionist EU, and then when it agrees a FTA that weakens EU Agriculture, they moan about that too...
