Senna, Prost, and i’m Sure plenty of others had likely the same or more than Hamilton, in skill, attitude, overall ‘package’. Comparing Marquez with Hamilton is like comparing Jason Plato with Schumacher.
Rossi was immense & his achievements should’ve stood for years, then along comes MM. Amazing rider, not seen someone so on the edge all the time since maybe Sheene & Mamola back in the day. Suspect he eclipses even them now.
I never really get the chance to follow the racing but I've been aware of where Rossi has come from since 250's in the 90's and I thought he was awesome (without really following but knowing what he was doing), If MM is noticeably better then, yes, he is current GOAT. Hard to compare to the previous greats as said their machines were different and arguably proved they were better racers, but maybe not. I also remember Mick Doohan using previous years bikes to give the competition a sporting chance - hard to compare racers if not side by side so MM wins currently
I think the definition of greatest of all time needs to be look at very closely/alongside with different riders/machines/competing over the years etc...Just a thought
Rossi (of whom I’ve been a big fan for most of his career) wasn’t averse to a bit of barging himself when he still had fire in his belly. The move on Gibernau at the final corner in Spain (2005?) was pretty rude and that ding dong with Stoner in Laguna Seca (2008?) where they touched multiple times and Stoner’s leathers were covered in tyre marks are just two incidents which I can think of off the top of my head. Much as I disliked what MM did in 2015 and I was and am gutted that his antics denied Rossi his 10th championship, most probably permanently by the looks of things (as people are now talking in terms of wondering if he’ll ever win another race, never mind another title), it wasn’t anything Vale himself hadn’t done to some degree or other. Plus MM was 4 years younger and even more hot headed than he is now. While Lorenzo and Pedrosa are fine riders they seem to lack (in DP26’s case, past tense) the inhuman intensity which must be needed to sustain that killer instinct in every single race over a 7 month season. Dovi is another one. He’ll blitz opponents for a couple of races here and there but then spend the rest of the season apparently settling for top 5 finishes. MM on the other hand (Vale in his pomp, Doohan and Foggy were others) behave as if they have a god given right to the top step of the podium and so when overtaken they act as if that other rider had called their mother a “puta”. One little moment which exemplified that attitude for me was during the epic Dovi/MM clash last weekend where when Dovi drafted past MM on the straight, MM looked over and appeared to glare at him as if to say “How ******* dare you” That level of self-belief, entitlement, “win or crash” aggression and ruthlessness are not especially attractive character traits but they are what separate the multiple championship winners from the nicer guys who will maybe win one when the alpha racer has a bad year or gets injured. Nicky Hayden in MotoGP and Jenson Button in F1 spring to mind. Rossi somehow managed to combine those almost sociopathic traits with charisma and likeability which masked or distracted people from them, but let’s not kid ourselves that he was some sort of two wheeled angel, because he wasn’t.
MM thumped himself firmly on my radar in his last race in Moto2 in Valencia. From the back of the grid he won the race. He was clearly head and shoulders above a huge field. I was on lunch break working in southern Nigeria when I watched it. I went back to the workshops and told all the lads MM was going to dominate MotoGP next year. And he has ever since He’s a once in a lifetime talent.
@Zhed46 Great post, completely agree, that’s exactly what separates the like of Rossi & Marquez & it’s whats so frustrating about Dovi because he’s fast when he sniffs a win but not when he doesn’t. MM tries to win from the back of the grid
He seems to tread that one line between just over the limit and crashing better than anyone else. Probably ever. But he also seems to consider the risk of every move as zero.
Funny you mention that as I watched Hit the Apex last weekend (which features that race) and it reminded me of when I saw the highlights at the time and, thinking as a Rossi fan, went, "Uh oh. Valentino is going to have his hands full next year".
I don't recall Vale over the years interfering in any other riders championship title over the yearsYes he has battle hard with fellow riders for that trophy but did he go out of his way & f''kup someone elses title chances
I used to agree with you but I watched "that" race again not long ago actually, and I must say that looking at it with a cooler and more objective head than I had on at the time, MM's antics look a lot less egregious than I remember them. But, just playing Devil's advocate for a minute - what is the difference between (a) riding defensively or getting in the way of other riders for a race or a series of races as a tactic to frustrate your challengers in order to win that race or that year's title, and (b) doing the same thing in order to prevent your main rival (who you are trying to usurp) winning another championship and making it even harder for you to eventually eclipse them as the GOAT. MM was merely thinking long term about his legacy, which is actually pretty mature for a little nutter like him.
Very much like your accounts/thoughts of that event on that particular race day but at the end of the day it's still a Malicious move by MM.
That is excellent ! Thanks for taking the time to post a great piece of writing . Ever thought of freelancing ? .... I'm serious . Some names I'd forgotten , and those Sete Gibernau races were classic . I was living in the sticks in Spain at the time so I was keen to find a local bar that had the MotoGP on the TV . Even bars full of old farmers would be watching it ( unless there was cycling or football on live which promised major Spanish excitement ) .
Marquez is better than a once in a generation rider. He's the best there's ever been and I don't say that lightly having watched some great riders over the years. Until a couple of years ago, I thought Doohan was the GOAT with his 5 back to back 500cc titles and the fact he'd have won a couple more if he hadn't almost taken his leg off at Assen. Even Doohan said himself that he was better than Rossi. Marquez will eclipse Rossi's records, maybe not points as I can't see him racing till he's 40. Agostini's records come from a different era, so not really comparible. As for proving it on different machines, be careful what you wish for. Honda would be nowhere without him and put him on a Ducati, and the rest might as well just give up.
Doohan only won on one bike, which he was the only one able to ride iirc, bit like stoner on the Ducati. And to say he was better than anyone else.... says it all #typicalaussie
My favourite Doohan quote. When asked by a journalist if he thought he was making 500cc racing boring by winning all the time....."What do you want me to do? Slow down?" Alex Criville also won the Championship on the same Honda by the way and he and Doohan had some ding-dong battles. Marquez is carrying the bike by himself these days as it's not the dominant bike. The trouble is, if Doohan gets asked a question and answers it honestly, he gets lambasted. He had not long finished racing when Rossi came in, so naturally the comparisons will come. Personally I think he was better, but as I said, before MM, I thought he was the best I had seen. All healthy debate that nobody will ever be able to prove, of course.
