British Indy: What Happens Now?

Discussion in 'Wasteland' started by Loz, May 23, 2015.

?
  1. Full Brexit with "no EU deal" on the 29th March.

  2. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a general election and new negotiations.

  3. Request Extension to article 50 to allow cross party talks and a new deal to be put to EU.

  4. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a second referendum on 1. Remain in EU or 2. Full Brexit.

  5. Table a motion in parliament to Remain in EU WITHOUT a referendum.

  6. I don't know or I don't care anymore

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. As the Finm would say: v.accurate :):upyeah:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. More fool you!





















    Everyone knows that mynah birds should be ignored...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. farage only makes sense to those with a similar mindset. as do they all. I wonder if he was bullied as a child?.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. I just laugh at you tucking into new season lamb on a Sunday! Enjoy!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. I don't eat lamb for that reason, unless in a Vindaloo o_O
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Curried man-fat, Eclat?

    You have some odd ideas, so you do.
     
  7. Anything with Naga is fine :blush:
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. hmm
    If we focus only on the near term and on Brexit, we are doing precisely what Boris Johnson wishes. But the ramifications of the last few weeks will have effects on politics on the British Isles that are far more far reaching than even the question of EU membership. Let us think about those.

    In a remarkably short period of time, the Conservative Party has radically changed. Seven year Conservative Prime Minister John Major is today taking this Conservative government to court, alleging ill intent in advice given to the Queen. Figures like Ken Clarke and Phil Hammond, who to this date have been real senior figures in Tory history, are actually threatened with expulsion.
    .
    Even Thatcher accepted that the Tory Party had a wing that tended to be closer to liberal or social democratic ideas, and never tried to throw her “wets” out of parliament. Dominic Grieve told the BBC today that he did not recognise what No.10 is doing as within the traditions of the Conservative Party. That perception is correct. What Boris Johnson is doing is changing the Conservative Party into something fundamentally other.
    .
    One fascinating development is Johnson and Javid’s rhetorical break with the traditional Tory right, instead to make populist public spending promises. Promises of 20,000 more policemen, and oodles more funding for schools, colleges and the NHS, are not the usual watchwords of the Tory right. It may surprise you to learn that I am inclined to think that these promises may not just be empty rhetoric, but this bit of populism may have real intent behind it. How this squares with more traditional Tories on public spending like McVey or Patel, or with Johnson’s promises on tax cuts, remains to be seen. But the switch to a more statist right in the economic as well as the civil sphere – something moving closer to the classic fascist model – might be one of the changes we are seeing.
    .
    My expectation is that this circle will be squared by a rigorous “good spending/bad spending” divide. Police, prisons, border control agents and of course the military will all be “good” public spending. So will education and the NHS because they are popular. This will be balanced by vigorous attacks on “bad” public spending – especially on welfare benefits, but also overseas aid, devolved administrations and local government.

    How this will work out for the Tories electorally is a conundrum. The Tory base rural vote is predominantly Brexit and will probably be little affected. Johnson appears to be prepared to write off the more urbane and middle class vote and thus simply give up on Tory chances places likine Richmond or Bath. His hope must be that the combination of popular public spending messages on the NHS and education, plus the continued harnessing of anti-immigrant xenophobia, will win enough urban votes in Birmingham, Sunderland and Blackburn.
    .
    That seems to me very high risk. To take on Jeremy Corbyn in a general election on the basis of who can most credibly promise increased public spending seems strange ground to choose. Plus no matter how much you ramp up the xenophobia or how many upgraded hospitals you promise, the cultural obstacles to getting the people of Hartlepool to put their cross against a Tory remain enormous. The pundits talk as though the Brexit Party vote and the Tory Party vote are interchangeable and it all hinges on whether Farage stands candidates. That is simply wrong. There are many thousands of people in Hartlepool and towns like it who would vote Brexit but won’t vote Tory.
    .
    I suspect Johnson and Cummings have blundered into a first past the post trap by being too clever. They have alienated enough educated and liberal Tory voters to lose seats, while replacing them with voters who respond to the populism, but in areas where they won’t be able to take many seats. Tory gains will be limited largely to the Midlands, but outbalanced by losses. In essence, they may get a plurality of the vote but spread too evenly, and FPTP will see them losing ground to the SNP in Scotland, Labour in the bigger cities and the Lib Dems in rich suburbs and county towns.
    That analysis stands whether the election is next month or any time to 2022.
    If you choose to change a political party fundamentally, you need to be sure that the new version is more popular. Concentrating on the one issue of Brexit, and calculating that he could hoover up all Brexit voters, is likely to be Johnson’s downfall. He appears engaged in a colossal act of hubris.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. Take it easy fihm, I was merely pointing out that the msn usual suspects tend to do what I said they do.
     
  10. Bloody hell fin, you should warn us when a big copy and paste is coming up, but what do you think? :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. upload_2019-9-3_21-13-19.jpeg

    :upyeah:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Be honest, Mr potato head
     
  13. that was me taking it easy. i'v noticed how irritated some of you can get.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  14. a mate has labelled her a bit of a dimwitt after she interviewed him to discuss blockchain voting methods. I still would tho.
     
  15. I didn’t say you’d have to talk to her ;)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. when interviewing people I do have to take into consideration how folks will jell. I suspect its the same thing. but bigger.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. You like jelly?
     
Do Not Sell My Personal Information