whats the point in banning subjects? Defeats the object IMOIMO This thread is fascinating and have no intention of closing or locking it out. I'm just glad it's in the right place :smile: Fuck that :tongue:
Dont really care where the pm comes from. As long as they at least look like they are trying to be fair to everyone. That witch used scotland as a testing ground for her fucked up ideas, so is their any shock at the level of hatred for her up here? And just for the record that little snp arsehole aint far behind thatcher in my book
The miners were badly served by both Thatcher & Scargill with their respective ego trips. Thatcher was determined to show she was stronger than Heath (whom she detested) by beating the miners who had triumphed over the Heath government. There was spite and vindictiveness in her actions. Her judgement was flawed. Were it not for this, she could have gifted the entire state-owned coal industry to the miners themselves to run as they saw fit. They would not get any more tax payer's money, but any profits could have been kept by the miners themselves to re-invest in the industry as appropriate. Once the miners themselves were in charge, the likes of Scargill would have no power base. Her legacy would have been significantly altered for the better.
It's a sad time for friends and family of the the departed Mrs T. I have no time for vitriol on her actions, governance, integrity, character traits that many seem obsessed with. I viewed her with respect, and this in no way is affected by my own political / social views. I am an isolationist at heart, and only care sincerely about people I actually know. Some of the rhetoric esposed on this forum is below gutter press (left & right wing) and people should be ashamed of themselves. As an isolationist, I could not give a flying monkeys left enlarged gangrenous testicle if most of the forum members were dismembered and slung into a cess pit tomorrow. But I would have sympathy with your friends and family.
As to the unions .. The same has gone on everywhere. It is hard to deny that the greatest devestation happendd where they were strongest. If their job was to assure good jobs are created for as many as possible , they failed miserably.. The jolt to the right and neoliberalism was global, not just uk.. Andjust ad with the unions pre MT, neoliberalism overshot through to the right. Let it be clear that we re at the end of what society can endure of individualism and lack of community. Wherr it is anyone to himself. Have the workers been badly served by the unions, the other believes in a utterly free market taking care of everything has led to even more de astation. As usual it neither one or thr other .it is some things of both that works .. As to MT. Isn t the respect she commands to do with what we expect from a leader. Strength and principle. And doesn t speak for our desire for a strong leader . And to how vulnerable that makes for dictators and demagogues
Maybe the Thatcher haters would have preferred a decade of discontent rather than just a winter! A held back by the Arthur Scargill types bringing the country to its knees for weeks for any cat fart excuse. Maybe they liked a piss poor 3rd world GDP! Thatcher took a turd and polished up but in doing so upset a few short sited people along the way.
There are several forms of taxation, and they are all proportionate in some way to income, expenditure, consumption or assets; it is their proportionate nature which makes taxes affordable and acceptable. Except for the poll tax, which was not proportionate to anything - a person in dire poverty or in debt, who could not afford to pay, nevertheless had to pay just as much as a millionaire. That is what made the poll tax so obviously, grotesquely, blatantly unfair. It was MT's insistence on forcing this injustice on the people, starting with those in Scotland who had voted against her the most, which was tyrannical and which is one of several reasons why so was so loathed.
I agree BUT there is more than one way to describe what is fair depending on your situation 1. Those with the most, pay the most (they system used in civil world) 2. Each person pays the same amount 3. Those that use the most, pay the most Each of those are 'fair'. Obviously not all of them are workable for a harmonious society. The pol tax was one version of 'fair' that didn't go down well. Fortunately our democratic system finds a level that works for most of the people most of the time. Can't say fairer than that.
There has been little mention here so far of MT's corrupting effect on political life. She implemented a policy of transferring publicly owned assets, such as council houses and shares in nationalised industries, into private hands at prices deliberately set at far below their value. This was bribery on a grand scale. Millions of people accepted the bribes - they are not complaining, obviously, although the more ethical ones still feel ashamed at allowing themselves to be so corrupted. Then there was the corruption of the democratic electoral system. She abolished the democratically elected Greater London Council, against the wishes of most people in London. She greatly reduced the powers of democratically elected local authorities all over the UK. And the poll tax was designed to (and did) drive huge numbers of people off the electoral registers, people who would have voted against her if they still had votes. Democratic structures in the UK have still not fully recovered from the damage of MT's era. However in the case of Trades Unions, she paradoxically forced them to become more democratic - she seemed to imagine that democracy is an inconvenience you inflict on your enemies, rather than a strength in itself.
If those privatised companies had still been in public hands, the pension bill alone would have crippled the economy a long time ago.
With regard to the strength of the Unions, if MT hadn't wanted the demise of the coal industry she could have introduced legislation to curb the power of the Unions...........(the car industries did themselves in regardless of the unions.........you only have to look at what they were producing).... .......after all the firemen and fuel strikes just a few years ago had f-all effect, largely down to legislation and policing, plus back-up resources (IE the armed forces).
lets not forget that groveling tosser with his arss kissing speech to Sadam Hussain (the fugging twat)
i grew up in the 70s with the 3 day week power black outs all the time ,when the country was being held to ransom by a bunch of red leftys , "Red robbo" union leader of the motor industry, Athur Scargul that shredded wheet haird twat from the coal industry , and when they said out they went out and then you would get other unions comming out in simpithy the streets were coverd with litter as the bin men were on strike , and i even know sombody who could not get his grans funeral sorted because they were on strike so she was kept on ice for a month . Mrs thatcher brought this country back on its feet not every thing she did was right but a lot was , as for the poll tax i think it was a good idear as it ment that Everybody Paid their way and it was fair unlike councle tax , but as we know in this country not a lot of people think they should pay their way but rather scrounge off the state , and if you look at the footage of the poll tax riots you see the same sort of people that were rioting in london a couple of years ago
Colz, yes Scotland was used to trial the Poll Tax but if it had been the very best idea in the world your Labour bigots would have still howled it down.Love what you wrote about your leader though. A self seeking little so and so.His madcap aspirations will eventually destroy the Scottish economy.
Wonderful woman. Yeah she made mistakes but hey people in glass houses should not throw stones. Was she ever on the take like the current lot or the union bosses she fought. I think not. She never took her PM salary in all her term in office. She had vision and values and didnt suffer fools. Oh and during her term in office America respected our views and didnt tell us how to think. A very very clever lady. RIP.
