I thought I’d start a thread that would not be contentious! Yesterday I attended the Ron Haslam racing school at Doninton Park, Premier class, three 15 minute sessions on a Honda CB650R, I entered corners so much faster than I ever would on the road, had the back wheel lifting under braking into the hairpin, used lean angles that I very rarely hit on the road, and all this on Dunlop sports tourer tyres, so I’m thinking do we really need expensive sports tyres on our Ducati’s?, have we just been conned by the tyre manufacturers over the years into thinking we need them? Here’s my assessment sheet, in the group I was in 2 riders scored 95%, they turned up in there own leathers and said they were regular track dayers, some scored 75%, so I was happy with 82.5% as a first attempt at track riding.
They used to use Bridgestone T30 which led to me trying them. Great marketing from a manufacturer perspective! They turn in a lot slower that some of the others I'd previously tried.
@Mark9 looking at your surname..did you know if any family member who rode for Honda/HRC? Slightly off piste I know..
Ha, I got marked down for not bothering to try to get my knee down, I had enough to think about without trying to change my riding style, that’s my excuse anyway PS please show photographic evidence or it didn’t happen!
Our lap times were circa 2 mins, however the instructor told us that Leon Haslam lapped 30 seconds quicker than that the year before on the same tyres, he didn’t say what bike Leon was on but I’m guessing Fireblade.
'Circa' is a big range! Leon was certainly not doing 1'30'' on sports touring tyres. 1'40'' is a possibility if the tyre is a very 'sporty tourer' perhaps. The hypersports tyres like Supercorsas will do much the same as slicks for most people but you would not last two corners in the wet on those which is something they need at the Haslam School and CSS. The different rubber limits your potential laptimes; I'm doing 1'38'' on slicks at Donington and I was doing 1'48'' on road tyres earlier in the year when it was cold. I would maybe do 1'45'' but it would be getting dangerous. The other very big difference is the edge grip when you are cranked over. Going into the top of Craner Curves for instance was positively scary on road tyres at speed. I was getting front wheel skip causing it to slide out almost every lap and on one lap I had a massive tank slap whilst fully cranked over which certainly woke me up.
I got the rear to properly squirm at Craners, twice, to the point that my arse was out of the seat and my feet were off the pegs! Funnily enough I wasn’t spooked by either time but the guy riding behind me said he thought I would come off both times!
Don’t forget my point is do we need sports tyres for road riding guys!, I honestly don’t think we do, maybe safer in fact to use sports touring due the their warming up quicker and retaining heat better than an out and out sports tyre?.
Yes I would agree for 50% of people but disagree for the other 50%. One problem I think we and the industry have created is that we have taken away the enjoyment of road riding for much of the conditions the UK experiences. Racebikes on Supercorsas are not much use unless it's above 10-15 degrees and dry. Whilst many make a point of using them in 'all weathers' and for long distance touring I would counter that 90% of those people only do it once or twice a year and in reality the bike sits in the garage a lot more often than it would if it was a more practical machine. Fitting sports touring tyres makes a lot of sense for the average road rider but then you have the question of whether the bike is the correct machine for the conditions in the first place! I get that many just love a race bike and are happy to use the wrong tyres but a race bike is built to do the things that are possible on race tyres and road tyres just make those things difficult or worse still unsafe.
My experience: When I started track riding I had the same questions regarding do we really need super sport tyres. I started riding on Supercorsa SP's. Everything was OK until my pace got up with the faster guys. For one ore two laps on the right pace they where still OK, but in the race(when the pace was consistent), after 8 laps the rear tire gave in (overheated) in I went down...Checked the video and saw that I entered the corner the same way than on all the previous laps, same with gas, so I cant't say it was all down to rider error. Been running slick since then...a world of difference...not just in time but also in the sense that they give you more confidence and you car ride more relaxed....
Ah, I see, I googled “HRC Shenton” came up with a Roger Shenton, no relation that I am aware of, doubt he was as fast as me
IMHO you cannot buy a shit Tyre nowadays. Certainly one that you are better than unless you ride like a god at full chat everywhere. Further more do we need super sticky Tyre for the road? no! they take longer to get up to temp and a lot harder to keep in their optimum working range. especially hard to keep at this range in the UK with traffic etc. Its been proven many time by biking mags etc that the sport tires are just as good if not better in certain conditions over the super sticky stuff. Also the tech that was on the top of the range tires 3-5 years ago is now found in the so called lesser models. Super sticky rubber, unless for a track day is an absolute waste of money for 99.9% of us. I have read recently that one way to actually improve the handling of your bike is to remove the track focused Tyre people like to show off with in the car park and replace with more usable road biased rubber. I changed from the SC on the 848 to pilot power 2CT and the 2CT offer better feel, far better grip due to actually being able to get to and hold their temp for the road and riding conditions i use them on, and far better longevity. Oh they also handled an Oulton park track day very well too. Anyone who tells you otherwise probably talking bollocks. Hence why riding schools dont feel the need to use super sticky stuff.
My 1098 Tricolore came with Supercorsas, and as said above they were downright scary when the temp was below 10c The rear span up at the merest hint of throttle when i was turning right once..... Changed to 2CTs and found them more than adequate for the road, and even for a day at Silverstone. I am slow though ! Steve
