Here we go again... Back in Court today. A couple of blokes owe my firm £4500. This is the fourth time we've been to Court over this. It's like wading through jelly. We've had three different hearings/Judges,who all told them they owe the money But then they come up with another story and the Judge says,"another hearing needed"...always at OUR expense. I know it's not a lot of money,but it's the principle And I doubt we'll get anything out of them,but again,it's the principle. Win or lose,at least it will be over.:frown:
Would it not be better to write the debt off, never deal with them again and let the industry know not to do business with these people?
Yes and no. Yes,it would be easier to just forget the whole thing and not have the stress and hassle. But they've dissolved Companies 3 times now,each time owing money Unless someone does something to get a marker against them,no-one will ever know. Road haulage is very fragmented.Theres not much information exchanged between the smaller companies like ours,so even if you tell those you know,it's unlikely it will get around enough people that it would stop them doing it again This is the first time I've ever done it,but I wouldn't do it again. Waste of time.Even when the Judge says pay up,theres always another excuse,another rule to be bent,another appeal process,(for the Defendant) All be over soon though.Can't be arsed anymore.
I've suffered the same thing at the hands of someone I considered a friend (debt was over £10k which is small in relation to the projects we undertake). He burnt his company in such a way that we couldn't chase him for the debt. He's as good as dead to me now, and I let anyone he comes into contact with know the story of how he does business. And I get to find out what he's doing from his FB account.
It's quite practical to use the County Court to bring claims against large companies, long-established traders, public authorities, or insurance companies, because they are likely to pay up once you have got judgment against them. But it's true that it's very difficult to collect money due from people who have disappeared, or are broke, or are willing to go to great lengths to avoid paying. The process can become non-cost effective. If the sum is small and the case complicated, the costs of recovering the money can come to far exceed the amount in issue, and you may never get back those costs. Bringing a claim can be interesting and effective, but before you start you need to take a tough and realistic view of the risks and prospects.
I had to take a large organisation to the small claims court, but before it actually got to the court, the judge reviewed the evidence from both sides. He ruled against them almost immediately as they had lied and also attempted to tell the judge how he should make a judgement (The last thing you should do is tell a judge how to do his job) He awarded the original claim amount and almost doubled it for the time we had to spend on taking the claim and preparing the evidence. AL
Oh Yes,...........a major housebuilder it were. Mind you I didn't receive any more commissions from them...........b*****ds. AL
ive had it a few times, only once for an amount like that, i never got it as when down the pan, ironically started up again, same site, vans,, people everthing, different name, and asked if i would do there work again? the nerve of some people, anyway, reclaimed the £800 odd vat on the invoice, put it down as a bad debt against my tax, luckily it was mostly labour, but it still sucks, and i agree its the principle of the matter, nowadays i ask for 1/2 the total invoice up front on anything over 2k, if they dont agree, i dont do it, anyway, feel for you, the bloody morons
Just got home. I'm pleased to report that we won our case The Judge ignored all the flannel the guy came out with,and awarded us 100% of everything we were claiming plus costs plus interest. Only one of them turned up,(with his missus),said he had authority to represent the other one,so the Judge found them both "jointly and severally",liable. Got a bit heated when the Judge said we should all go outside for 10 mins and see if we could agree some figures,(I'm not big on hysterical public display tbh),but: His missus made various accusations at high volume,about our previous,"friendship". Apparently it's ok to run up big bills with a "friend",even if you have no intention of paying. But's it's not ok for the "friend",to take legal advice and try to obtain payment. Ho-hum........... We won't get anything,("Hell will freeze over etc etc"),but the scales of Justice tipped in the right direction. Thanks for the supportive comments and interest, It's really appreciated.
If the Court makes an award and that award is not paid then surely the Court has some mechanism for taking the matter further ? If the losing side effectively sticks two fingers up to the Court by saying " Hell will freeze over etc etc" isn't that a Contempt of Court or something similar ? Can a Court Order be ignored with impunity ? My only experience of the Small Claims Court was when I was taken to one by an Architect, and he lost. It was an interesting and educational experience to say the least. The losing Architect offered to shake hands with the Judge prior to leaving the Court and was politely but very firmly rebuffed.
I really don't know what happens now,if anything. The previous time to this,(none of them turned up),the Judge found partly in our favour,and matey got a "County Court Judgment" against him Unknown to us,matey then appealed At the appeal hearing,(which we only found out about by accident),he got the Judgment set aside,claiming he was unable to attend Court previously as he had,"been at the doctors". When the Judge asked him why hadn't rung the Court at the time,he said he had....13 days after the hearing when he didn't turn up...(see what I mean about wading in jelly?) So the Judge advised a full hearing at Small Claims Court. Hence today's appearance.He may well stick two fingers up at the Court. He told the Judge he would go bankrupt rather than pay a penny to us. That might sound like a hollow victory. Sometimes,doing the "right" thing,appears to be the "wrong",thing. Financially,we might not get anything. But right now,it feels like it was worth the money. Like I said,it's the principle of the thing.
Well done for sticking at it and getting the right result. Hope you get your money. Just like a lot of people i had similar issues getting money from people and estate agents when i had my locksmithing business. In the end i still kept agreeing to do the work, took keys for jobs and all sorts. Then i never went back to them until they agreed to clear the debt or just pay someone else to sort out the mess i'd left them in. Gave up caring in the end so well done again for toughing it out.
Cheers buddy.Sorry to hear you've had your probs though. Can't understand why we don't have Laws to stop people like this. I heard once in Germany the law says all trade debts to be settled within 30 days.(might be wrong,don't quote me) If you don't settle,you lose the right to trade. Sounds a simple thing to implement to me
Is there a way you could name and shame them in your industry without giving them the opportunity to sue you for slander/libel? All walks of life could do without such scum who totally lack honesty, integrity and decency.
If you have got a County Court judgment in your favour, congratulations: that is the end of the beginning. Now you start on the next phase, ENFORCEMENT. The defendant, if he is an arsehole, will do nothing whatever. If the unsatisfied judgment is registered against him his credit rating will be damaged, but some defendants are less troubled by that than others. So the onus is on you as claimant to take enforcement action and collect your money. There is a whole list of weapons in your armoury, but also a whole list of pitfalls. Read the leaflets, consider the options, and act vigorously but cautiously. Good luck. PS I suggest calling it the County Court, which is what it is, don't say small claims court.
Sadly the dishonest scum are sometimes the defendants, sometimes the claimants, and sometimes both. The job of the court is to sort the wheat from the chaff, which is not easy.
I have to admit that prior to today I did not have faith that,"justice would prevail" The Judge today,without actually saying very much,"teased"?(not a great description but it kind of describes how he did it),the truth from the Defendant. It wasn't nice to watch to be honest,watching someone hang themselves. A very clever man,leading someone in a direction they don't realise they are being led. And the odd thing,when he asked me questions,I was totally relaxed. Maybe because I was telling the truth,it was easy,and not at all stressful. Yes we got the right result,and I'm pleased. But in some strange,perverse way,I feel sorry for the Defendant. Against this guy,he had no chance.
