Now this might be a stupid question but surely a D16RR would have been cheaper and faster on track? Not that I'm knocking your bike as its amazing but just wondered why you went down this way?
If you think modding the R is expensive, try running a desmo Hard to tune, no spares, rverything costs double to triple money and takes months.. From what i hear the toughest bike to ride hard. Costs a Fortune to get to 200 bhp and handling and will then kill you riding it Or try to.. Would not dare riding the R without tcs and abs .. I know : i m a pussy
[ it s the italian way of avoiding burning the fairing when the pipe touches.... no joke : this is true!
View attachment 14486 View attachment 14494 View attachment 14493 View attachment 14492 View attachment 14491 View attachment 14490 View attachment 14489 View attachment 14488 View attachment 14487 View attachment 14495 So another good day at the office! very early start as the tank was to be fitted. And the red tail we got while waiting on the carbon one got installed and prepped for the painters. I the carbonvani tank looks great but does not fit that well. the plugs will have to be chimmed 1 MM to fit the holes. No such thing on the ilmberger stuff that is the brand i would recommend if i have to choose one. Carbonvani otoh really has got everything and is also the most costly. Ilmberger is more limited in it's offerings. the front glossy fender from Carbon King is very well made also. and at very good prices. as the robby moto triple swipes upwards and trhe bar has raisers we had to find a solution to relocate the brake fluid reservoir and made this in aloy for the moment. we will look for a carbon solution later. Understand people suggest not to paint it. but everything is now with the painters in whom i have the greatest confidence as they also do all Alstare paintwork. So they must have a very good idea of quality and the need for accurate timing and dead lines. i just hope Carlos and Badovani do not chrash all of their bike twice at Assen.
That is a really nice build - don't drop it after all this work! As for the D16, not sure that it would be more expensive than this exercise to be honest - but agree that when you need parts there are very few around and they cost an absolute fortune. Again, trying not to drop it for the same reasons. I have my Panigale running again now and made massive progress on setup, geometry and handling so will update again shortly when I have had chance to run it hard. For what it's worth, the new Ducati map that mine has in is transformational to the bike - the throttle control of the engine is night and day improved - first touch throttle particularly. The difference in stability is enormous. Mine is running full Termi too FWIW.
Hi cham, good to hear the improvements are there... as you know i'm here with a bunch who have one year on me as to development and i'm enjoying the fruits of their extensive labour. what you discribe is indeed the huge leap forward coming from Ducati itself and some final strokes to the mapping. here they did the mapping from schratch since last year and now build further on this development. But one thing is for sure : the Pani is now much closer to the idea of being less torquy as the 1198R was but more ridable and still faster at the end. that is a long way from the choked up bike that came out off the crate a couple of years ago.. the best combo i picked up on - including homegrown experience - seems to be the Termi FS + Rapidbike Race + MWR airfilter. a friend of ours loaded the latest map on this combo to find 198 DIN bhp (on a base) and that is what we're using. as to setup : pleas let me/us know the changes you made and what the effect it has on handling... As the bike should be ready by 20/5, that is where we will go next. back to Tech : setup and engine tuning. especially setup will be a whole new chapter.. can't wait for stuff being thrown in the 2013 WSBK waste bin at the end of this year. especially tanks and swingarms that are very different..
Hi Kope, Nice to see that coming along, and happy to share the rest of my feedback on setup etc once I know for sure where I am. I only have limited saddle time on the bike since the work was done, and it was only changing geometry, linkage, springs and then the full system map upgrade from Ducati. The highlights I think so far, based on the changes and time I have spent on this bike are as follows: 1. The bike needs to be lower. I mean LOW! Drop the CoG considerably from stock, otherwise it will be too unstable. I have setup notes, when I am happy that this is a proper baseline I will let you know, but I dropped the front by 5mm and the rear by a lot, between 15-20mm! To measure ride height using the ducati tool I can give you numbers, but otherwise you will have to do by trial and error. 2. The linkage needs to be in progressive to get any leverage on the shock - and with it in flat the front of the bike reacts very differently to the rear, and the thing is far less stable as a consequence - especially on bumpy roads. It also needed far softer springs at the rear (I am an 80) and the front were fine (10's). 3. The original ECU map for the bike (at least the full Termi system version that I used) was f-ing awful! This was the cause of a lot of the issues as the throttle control was terrible, first touch of the throttle was awful (destabilising the bike at max lean when you get on the gas) and the engine hunted the whole time, further destabilising the bike. It only worked on large throttle openings (chain pulling hard) or closed - in between it was nasty. The new map is so different it isn't even funny - sod the peak power gains, it is the control over the engine and the reconnection between your hand and the engine that gives you the control back. Hence, I am of the view that Ducati knew the electronics needed work, but rushed out the bike. Consequently, they released the map about a year later once they had finished the work, but they already knew the problem. They didn't create this in response to customer feedback - it was already in the works. The 2013 bikes (and the R) may have always had this version, but it isn't even comparable with the earlier 2012 map. I know someone who has the full supersport electronics package and his wasn't awful like the 2012 map - his was always good. Now with the 2013 map, this is a BIG step forward. Let me have some more time to ride it and I will let you know, but I have the geometry setup now on a 200/55 Dunlop GP211 rear tyre (same height as the Dunlop NTec 195/65 slicks) and it seems to work. Fast, but manageable. I would like to see though how stable it is when I wind it up on track, but only ridden it on the road so far. Will find some quieter roads to verify! :tongue:
Hi cham, tx for this extensive write up ! what you're telling on the throttle response fully agrees with what i hear here. as i said, they 've been working on that to smoothen that out. As you say especially the first response is key and it showed that for the Frist 75% of throttle, there were large gaps in the reactiontime. it was only past this 75% that the reaction was 100% of input. Combine that with a non to balanced ( choked) engine and of you go. I'm looking forward to your experience on the handling when on track . Indeed the Progressive is there to deal with the bumpy reality of non track roads but i'm very interested what this does to handling on the track. I haven't heard anything yet on have P setup in those conditions. as to geometry, as you say again, it will be a tailored made excersise as quit some weight has come of in general and to the front 50%. also , me being tall at 183 and not to light at 105 kgs all geared up, it will take some tuning in. The only worry i have now is that i may not be able to do all this before i go to Francorchamps and that is not a track to get this wrong.. i'll have to be carefull there and see how it goes. be carefull on those quiter roads.. i def plan to come over to the uk for some track days next year and swap ideas in the flesh !
Kope, Will do - but need to test it out too! Might stick it on the back of the trailer to one of the UK track days and give it a few laps whilst I am there - but mine is in road trim as I am tracking the Desmo instead this year. As for weight, I am 65kgs and about 175cms so have mine no doubt softer than you would run it, but nonetheless, the geometry and rear shock linkage still need to be right. I found flat linkage just didn't get the shock working at all. Maybe on a billiard smooth track it would be OK, but I found it tied itself in knots on the road like that. But I think it was all about the throttle control. That map last year was f-ing nasty! The new one is just in control of the engine. the last one simply wasn't and was full of holes and made the bike lurch around something terrible even on delicate throttle. I always thought my throttle control was OK (trained on a desmo!) but nothing made that thing stable last year. This year, you have some relationship with what you ask for and the fueling you actually receive. That engine is just so good (strong) that without control, with those two enormous pistons out of control, it just rattled the bike around dreadfully - and as there is the frameless design that won't have helped. But now, what a difference. The desmo shares the similar design albeit trellis frame, and even stiffer chassis (trust me, the Pani still feels very soft in comparison when you ride them back to back), but that v4 engine is a dream to ride. Pani is the next best engine I have tried though now it has a decent ECU map....... Will get the miles in and tweak - then report back. Fingers crossed for some sunshine!
hi cham just booked myself in Donington and brands on 24 and 26/5 with focused ! hope to see your Desmo there... perhaps you can show me the lines ! for 1 minute till you get bored tracking a desmo, now that is a courageous man!
I do hope Brands is the GP circuit. The Indi circuit is like a large roundabout but the GP is a great place for big bike. I am between both tracks but may pop along. Love to see the bike.
Sadly I won't be there either of those days, but am doing the Ducati UK day on the 28th May if you are going? Do I try and put the Desmo on track with the straight through GP pipe without mufflers as it's a "ducati noise level" day? Last year there was a sign on the wall saying "max 118dB" but not sure it would be below that even! It's insanely noisy. I don't know Donington or Brands at all as never ridden either, so wouldn't be quick at all. I have ridden Silverstone twice though now so at least know some of those big, fast corners - so planning to take the Desmo on there this summer for sure as that will be fun!
View attachment 14931 last bit needed to be able to run is in! the RS style filler cap ... looove the bronze and finish .. one week left to wait and see the bike for 95 % finished... just waiting for the carb race seat to come in and get painted! it will take quit some attention to detail to get that right..
