Seized 748.

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by luckymarine, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. It will be sorted.

    Keep reminding myself to keep taking pictures as they might just help someone else some day.
     
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  2. It's horrible when something like this happens to your bike but thank you for this thread. It certainly is entertaining and informative! :)
     
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  3. There will be hat eating aplenty!!!

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  4. So many things wrong with this picture...

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    Oh and random bits my engine obviously didn't need...

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  5. You got a bit of swarf there I think !!

    So what was that plug that appears to be the offender ?

    Think a new complete engine seems in order.
     
  6. Plug is the crank shaft oil galley plug.

    It has a habit of working its way out, the oil feed to the crank then dries up and nasty things happen.

    The fact its still in situe and tight means that it must have been something else.

    The more I look the more I think it was a big end bolt that sheared, the bit of bolt you can see amongst the swarf.

    Agree, whole bottom end and 1 cylinder required.

    Can sell the gearbox bits, oilpump, etc etc, anything not affected.
     
    #186 luckymarine, May 9, 2013
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  7. Think it might have been a bit of big end bearing. Was the right colour.
     
  8. #193
    It looks like that has been on its way out and getting milled away as it did so. How far does it have to be from "fully home" for the oil pressure to fail ?
    It looks like the culprit to me.
     
  9. I will put my foot in my mouth here, but...
    I dont think the bung being wound out has caused this problem, given another 100 miles or so and it would have! IMO i think the sludge has built its way up in the crank and closed off the oilway. this causes the bearing to fail, and then continual running will hammer the rod end so much that the rod bolts will either snap or back out, or of course if you are really lucky, both. it looks like one side has given way first causing the rod damage the bolt then will just fall out as its all smashing expensively around between your legs. By any chance do you ride using earplugs?
    I have seen this happen before, but not as nicely pictured and documented, another cause that gives a similar colourful result is detonation, this also hammers the big end into submission with either a snapped bolt or rod or both.
    BTW i would not bank on selling the oil pump, remember that the oil pump is before the filter, so a lot of that schrapnel has been round the pump as well, the screen only catches the big bits, also clean any oil lines out. tha one i am thinking about is the one to the heads, get those checked for damage from debris as well, it gets everywhere!
    best of luck.
     
  10. Judging by the depth of the hex key hole and the fact that its done up really tight I dont think it was working itself loose.

    I think that when things started shearing, jamming and flexing its been pushed closer to the engine casing for perhaps 10 to 20 revolutions of the crankshaft and lost a little metal as there are not many bright bits of metal in the swarf.

    Now if it is really a big end bolt that has sheared, allowing the bearings to be released into the mixer and then half of the big end has snapped off whilst the crankshaft has continued to spin. Smashing all hell out of the conrod in question to the point it locks up the engine.
    Is that a maintenance issue? Or unacceptable metal fatigue?
    As a mechanic the bike has always had its innards taken care of even if I had to store it outside.
     
  11. Think Steve R is correct that it was on its way out . The ones that I have seen have been flush at worst and usually slightly recessed . You will probably never find out what caused the destruction but I think it has been quick . You would have heard it knocking long before if it was gradually destroying itself .
     
  12. Perhaps i am wrong about the plug being at fault.

    Another thing to consider and sorry to have to say this. If either of the rods has been allowed to rotate free of the tight control of the big end bearings then the distance it travels only needs to be a little bit more than usual before the top of the piston kisses the valves. Kisses them is the best you can hope for but either way they might have a slight bend on any given valve head and therefore also stress's to the valve guides.
    I would not spend hard earned money on restoring or reusing any part of that engine.
     
  13. Thing died on the motorway whilst doing..... 70mph.

    Had just filled the tank up to the brim and suddenly had exactly the same symptoms as the blocked breather I'd had about a week before. Rough running etc, was on the motorway at the time and wasn't far from home maybe 500m away from my junction and then a further 500m to home so thought I'd get off the motorway, vent the tank and then get the thing home and declog the breather.
    I didn't make it off the motorway, oil light came on and then within a few seconds I got about 4 loud knocks, the engine cut out and the rear end locked up.

    Up until then I only ever heard the usual bangs and jingles associated with a Ducati!
     
  14. Both heads look fine to the eye but before being re-used will be stripped down to examine for flaking rockers anyway so can examine the valves, lap them back in if they are fine.
    This engine has given me a lot of happy miles, the least I owe it is to try my best to salvage as much as I can for the rebuild. Might take a bit more time and effort but I'm fine with that.
     
  15. i would not knock yourself up over this, it has happened and luckily you walked away from it, this could have easily spat you off at 70mph had a lump of whatever got lodged in the gearbox (no good how fast you are on the clutch if the box is locked), so in that respect very lucky.
    i agree with Ducati2242, the bung is usually flush or recessed, the markings on it suggest it at some time has worked its way out even if it is tight now, i still would like to see inside to see how much sludge there is.
    As for the bolt comming loose, there obviously will be a reason and probably you will never know, but as i suggested its usually due to hammer on the rod eye of some description, i think the bolt could have even come all the way out before total failure, we will never know, there might be enough support for the remaining bolt to hold for a short while if you were not caning it.

    BTW a very good post.
     
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  16. Will try get it out and see what sludge I can find.

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    Small lump of carbon buildup near the plug itself but otherwise the oil gallery is pretty clear.
     
    #196 luckymarine, May 10, 2013
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  17. You cant get out of hat eating that easily!
     
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  18. #198 ducati2242, May 10, 2013
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
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  19. Oooh good find with the 748 engine! I've been trawling ebay, gumtree and the like for a few days now.
     
  20. That lump of buildup is what i would expect to find with a big end failure. think: where has all that shite come from and for it to build up to that extent how much has gone through the bearing, there usually is less down the tube as the oil flow ashes it through the bearing and out back to recirculate again.
    A question i will ask is do/did you change the filter regularly? a big problem is that when the filter starts to get full there is a bypass in the filter that can open when the oil is cold, this blasts all sorts of crap round the motor. the bypass is there to stop the filter blocking totally and starving the engine of oil. Some have the idea that to spin a new filter on mid service is a good idea and quite cheap, i personally do this but use cheaper filters on road bikes and use washable screens on anything i value.
    I would say that this does point towards your problem.
     
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