My 1198 (2010, 12k miles) started making a strange whining/rubbing noise when releasing the clutch. It has nothing to do with the typical noise of dry clutches. The first time I noticed it was one year ago with about 2k miles less, and it just got worse and more frequent. Just to be able to exclude it, I replaced the bearing of the pressure plate (part 14 in the image), but the problem did not change. I also tried to move by hand the clutch housing (part 13 in the image) and it moved easily by 0.1-0.2mm (estimated by eye). Then I tried to move the inner clutch shaft by holding the main clutch nut (part 25). Unfortunately, the axis moves by about 0.1mm (estimated by eye) in the radial direction (on a plane perpendicular to the axis), and even does some noise when doing so (like if there was a really big play). I could not notice any play on the axial direction instead (but I did not take any precise measurements). The play on the inner shaft is definitely smaller than the play on the clutch housing, hence it cannot account for it. I have seen these related posts/videos already: * "Strange Sound/vibes Off Throttle" https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/strange-sound-vibes-off-throttle.42738/ but it seems still unsolved * "DUCATI SBK 848 2008 engine abnormal noise [SOLVED]" www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPamVRqPrNA which required replacing the main bearings and pointed to wrong bearing preload as possible cause. * A post by @old-rider about bearing failures and wrong preloads https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/not-a-good-day.53005/page-4#post-949335 * "2010 Ducati Streetfighter 1098 - 15k miles - Main Crank Bearing Failure" www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFmnwb5JTjM I have not inspected the oil/oil-filter/magnet for metal particles, but that's the next thing I will do (next weekend?). Questions: 1. Is it normal a certain play on the inner shaft of the clutch? 2. Does it make sense to replace all bearings in part number 17 (which does not require a full engine disassembly), or would you go directly for a full engine rebuild?
Dust build up and blueing on the metal clutch plates results in a graunching noise from the clutch plates on release. Is that what you are trying to describe? The solution is to take the clutch plates out (noting the metal with dot). Scotchbriting the metal plates helps and reassembling with the friction plates in a different order. A mod I have always done is to remove the rubber clutch seal and pack the clutch cover bolts with 3 washers each to create a gap between the clutch cover and engine. Dust can then escape and there is no graunching.
I must try this out, but I suspect that it will not help in this case: I changed the clutch 1000km ago (with an EVR) and the noise was present also right after the change (with no dust nor blueing) as well as with the old clutch. Also, when I disassembled the plates today they still looked quite clean. Btw: I also noticed that the clutch has been touching the clutch rubber seal because of evident rubber marks on the clutch. Maybe this helps amplifying the vibrations. This would explain the fact that a cold engine (with rubber less sticky) is less likely to produce the noise. I forgot to say in the original post: lately the vibrations got also more powerful and I can even feel them on the clutch lever (because of the pressure waves propagating back from the actuator I assume).
Update: I drained the motor oil (2.5 litres only !?!), then checked the gauze filter and the magnet (see photos). The particles in the filter where mainly the grey silicone sealant, and some non-magnetic metal parts (maybe aluminium). On the magnet there was just fine metal dust. If you can tell if it is normal or not, please add a comment. Also, I removed the larger gear in part number 17 (the one where the clutch drum is attached) and removed the bearings from it (see photo). The bearings show no visible defects, but they have large play of about 0.2mm (SKF 6005) to 0.3mm (SKF 16005) in the axial direction (measured under finger pressure), and about 0.1mm in the radial direction (this time measured not by eye, but with a dial indicator). For reference, the bearing types are: * closest to the engine centre: SKF explorer 6005, 25x47x12 * closest to the clutch cover: SKF explorer 16005 TN9, 25x47x8 Strangely, the bearings cannot be ordered separately (without the 600Eur gear) from Ducati for the 2010 1198 model, but they can be ordered separately for the 2009 one. I have not measured yet the play on the inner clutch shaft, but the noise I heard last time when moving it by hand was probably caused by the play between the teeth of the gears. I hope there is no need to take the full engine apart.
Hi Luke, How is your troubleshooting going? I also have an 1198 clutch issue but it is mechanical rather than aural but, (as you have stripped your clutch), may I be cheeky and ask a question if I may? Is the clutch basket compressing the rubber shock blocks when you tighten the basket up, (100n/M I believe)? The reason I ask is because my clutch will hardly disengage and, upon investigation, I have noted that when pulling in the clutch lever the entire clutch basket moves outwards by about 5mm before the clutch springs start to compress, (and olny then do the clutch plates start to disengage but the lever is virtually at the bar by this stage so the clutch is dragging. My latest theory is that the clutch nut has loosened, (actually most of the forum members have already suggested this), but I was discounting that purely due to the fact I couldn't move the clutch basket by hand and the 5mm of play is only evident when the hydraulic force is exerted by the slave cylinder? If the Cush Rubbers protrude proud of their housing then the clutch basket will compress the rubbers as it is tightened and if it is working loose then, perhaps, the 5mm of play is taken up by the rubbers and that is why i can't move the basket by hand? I am now going to check/remove the mounting nut and see if my theored a clutch holding tooly holds water! I believe that I will neeed a clutch holding tool to torque the nut to the correct tightness - where can i obtain one? Apologies for not being able to assist you with your issue but it has to be something quite significant if you are feeling it at the lever as, (as per your comments), something is 'modulating' the clutch push rod which is then presurising and releasing the slave cylinder piston thus transferring pressure waves back to the master ylinder and lever. It could be warped plates - just like a brake disc - which results in the exact same symptoms whereas I would have thought a squeeling bearing would not modulate the clutch push rod. Take care out there.
Hello @Martian, I assume that for "rubber shock blocks" you refer to the part number 6 in the image above. If so, they are not compressed as you tighten the "dry clutch centre nut" at 250 Nm (~25kg with a lever 1 metre long). There is some play guaranteed by the washer 23. I assume that for "clutch basket" you mean part number 13 (called in the Ducati manual "clutch drum" or "clutch housing") and not part number 10 (called in the Ducati manual "clutch centre"), can you confirm that? To my understanding, there should be no force pushing part number 13 outwards (away from the engine center) except from eventual stuck disk plates... so it seems strange to me. When the clutch lever is released, part 13 should be pressed in the opposite direction (towards engine centre) by the clutch springs, and should have no axial force when the clutch lever is pulled. Anyhow it is definitely not normal. If it is not the central nut, it could be that the circlip squeezed between the two ball bearings in part number 17 is broken. That circlip holds the entire axial force created by the clutch springs. Please post some pics to document the issue! I'm curious to know what it turns out to be. It is enough a tool for holding the inner clutch part (part 10 in the image). For loosening/tightening the nuts 11 the static engine torque is sufficient to prevent the clutch to turn. I bought the tool called "DUCATI HOLDING TOOL FOR DRY CLUTCH LASER CUT IN U.K. 8mm MM AT 600MM LONG" by michael4317 on ebay for £26.00 (image below) and I am very happy with it. It works both with the original parts and with the EVR clutch (inner teeth only). UPDATE about my problem: the inner clutch shaft has ZERO radial play (below 0.01mm -not measurable) and hence I will not take the engine further apart. I am now waiting for the two ball bearing replacements (in the photo above).
Re-hello @Martian, I found your video https://www.dropbox.com/s/ekdxffoqxia78pp/20200425_141501.mp4?dl=0 that you posted on the other thread (https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/clutching-at-straws.77477/). From the video it is part number 10 (the center clutch) which moves by 5mm, not part number 13. I think that an unscrewed centre nut can explain your problem indeed.
Luke, Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply - it is gratefully received! As I was not at work today, (and as the sun was shining), I decided to sort my issue out once and for all! And before I go any further I will offer my profound apologies to the majority of forum members who all said it would be the clutch retaining nut as that is what it was! In my defence, however, I do not believe that my clutch is standard, (but could be wrong with that assumption too), as it is the 6 ball bearing slipper clutch with standard plates and, (when I semi stripped the clutch last week), I did not have a 32mm socket to check the retaining nut - but it appeared tight and would not turn by hand! I had my 1/2" drive socket set with me, today, and as soon as I put my ratchet on the nut it turned freely, (confirming the conclusion reached by all forum members), but I decided to remove the entire basket assembly to give it a thorough clean. This is when I noted the 6 ball bearings and the slipper ramps moulded into the basket castings! The entire assembly, (and the clutch housing), was surprisingly clean and required minimal attention although reassembly was a touch tricky, (keeping the 6 ball bearings in their respective locations), but I simply used two clutch sprins, collars and bolts to fix the two assemblies together, (before offering it back onto the drive spline), and once the retaining sprung collar and nut were refitted I could then remove the two clutch springs and bolts and then fit the plates and the final clutch pressure plate. I do not have the clutch holding tool so I have tightened it as much as I can, (whilst the bike was in gear), and I have ordered a laser holding tool, (similar to yours), and will tighten fully when it arrives! https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkdjh8mjt7hvi1s/20200506_130350.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gxiz6b52gbbz6l/20200506_130354.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ugrkr165jh9wpx/20200506_130358.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvr5udvo66bkt3v/20190214_133551.jpg?dl=0 Take care and stay safe. Martian.
UPDATE about the original problem: I was wrong and it wasn't bearings' fault. After replacing both bearings and driving about 200 km the noise reappeared. The new bearings have some play too, but probably less (I did not take a measurement though). Btw: it was fun to see how they went into position under their own weight (no press needed) after heating the gear on the kitchen electric stove (150 C?) and putting the bearings in the refrigerator (-20 C?) ! As a side note, I also cut the inner part of the rubber seal to be sure that it does not touch the clutch housing (part 13 in the image), but that evidently did not help either. The next time that I will take the clutch apart, I will clean better the clutch plates and reassemble the plates in a different order as suggested by @chrisw.
Any update on this original concern?? I just picked up an SP and has a squeal when I slightly ride/release the clutch. I haven't done anything to this yet, ill make it my winter project. It has only 4000km and its been sitting for a while in last 2 years.
Three years later: the noise never reappeared. I guess it was just a matter of cleaning the clutch indeed.
