Not going in to details I have started a employment tribunal case against my former employer. Yesterday I received a letter acknowledging claim was accepted, I was given a claim number and was informed that my claim was now sent to respondents for their attention. They have 28 days to reply. My question is about reference, I know what they issue in official reference about me which is not much. A nice line that as per their procedure they can only confirm following: That I worked there, for how long, what position and that I was dismissed. Funnily under all that they add that if you want more details call them which is odd and not fair put it on paper or not at all is what I think. Now that my claim is open can I send them a letter from me asking to cease and desist giving out the reference in any form that might be damaging to me? In other words can I make them change dismissed to under dispute or mutual agreement or something? Would it be one of those things that a solicitor needs to send or is it not possible at all? Cheers
were you actually dismissed? TBH, I didn't think they could actually state that you were dismissed in any sort of reference and I believe that it's against the regs to say anything verbally beyond what you've stated above. Where's wossername when you need her??? I'm sure you can negotiate the reference given that you've opened a claim. You don't really need a solicitor - most of this stuff is pretty basic. And it's 'cease' :smile:
Ups it sounds the same if you ask me so got the first word that sprung to mind. As far as I was told they can give in reference anything they can backup in righting. So if they say I was dismissed they need to have a dismissal letter they sent to me ready to prove it, if they say I was on x number of disciplinary they have to be able to prove that. As such dismissal on reference is not incorrect as that is how I was let go, what is behind it is another matter. I was thinking the invitation to call them for details is a bit odd and made me thing what do they say over the phone that they do not want to put on paper? I will have to give them time to next week to make sure they got the letter from ET and will be in contact with them trying to negotiate something .... that is unless someone in know how will advise me otherwise?
you are completely bollixed when it comes to references what ever the law says over the telephone and off the record they will say whatever they like and now that you have commenced an employment tribunal proceedings all they need say is yes we can confirm that xx worked for us and whilst there is a pending employment tribunal decision we will make no further comments about xx better off to negotiate an out of court settlement and an agreed written reference as part of said settlement
popelli I do not know but for me it looks better to have them say yes he worked here but reason for leaving is under investigation by ET then having just dismissed. If they are even a bit smart they will not say anything over the phone anymore as it could be my mate calling and recording it for all they know, or a solicitor if you catch my drift.
yeah, I'd go with that too. I don't know what the tribunal is about, but I would use that as a bargaining position. They should agree to a noddy written reference that won't hurt you and agree not to say any more verbally. You might have to give up any claim you have against them, but then your future is clear. Anyone can try to contact them for a verbal reference - you, me, Nog - as a potential employer. If they slip up and give out anything that's not agreed, you can go right back for breach of contract. TBH, I'd wait a couple of weeks, then have a quiet word with HR. "It's difficult looking for work with this hanging over me. Is there any way we can just stop this"...
Jerry I know them, a quiet word will not work. Dismissal was personal so why would they do favours now? They are a bunch off .... there and to shine a bit of light. After they let me go for certain thing that "only I did as per dismissal" they let another person go two weeks later for exactly the same thing. They had no evidence for either of us. After they done that 2 people left on days within a week and what ever was left of my night team is now on sick leave due to stress apparently since about a week after I left ..... Not to mention some things were purely done against me while others were let go with not even slap on wrist, others that were not Polish mind you. Granted it was not hard as I was the only Polish person working in that department under that manager.Sorry if I do not believe they will listen to reason. I was thinking to send something in those lines to make them stop the reference game but leave the ET or possible off the court settlement option open, and suggest the settlement route as well. Company Address Dear XXXXX Recently it has been brought to my attention that reference you are sending about me could be against the law. You are actively encouraging potential employers to call you to receive more details about me, further assistance, instead of putting it on paper and signing under it. According to reference you send out your own procedure only allows providing very basic details to reference request. To be exact time of employment, position employed and reason for living. Yet you encourage calling you about it. By law reference can only be given based on facts that can be backed up. Off the record, over the phone reference suggests you are providing details that you do not want to put in writing. That action leads me to believe you are providing untruthful reference which you will not be able to backup. I would also like to take this opportunity to say I have started an employment tribunal claim that has been accepted. Claim number is …. and I believe you should have received all the details by now. Based on those facts I would demand you to stop providing reference in current form and to stop encouraging potential employers to call you for off the record reference or as you put it for further assistance. I would also ask you to change the reason for leaving from dismissal to under dispute by ET as that is a fact. If you would like any further assistance with it or discuss the options any further please call me to arrange a meeting. Kind Regards
As an employer, if I receive a reference that just states the basic facts ie start and finish dates then I take it as a bad reference. I also will tell the whole truth about an ex employee over the phone where I wouldn't put it in writing, and usually when a future employer asks for a reference they usually follow it up with a phone call to get the full picture. I do the sane when hiring. If its factually correct then an employer can put it in your reference. If you don't like what they have written then its up to you to get it changed - good luck with that.
Gilps couple of years ago I would agree with what you said above (that part). Thing is since then I seen more and more reference coming with just basic info and not even suggesting to call them for more. Far from it being quite adamant that it is all they will provide. It is a fact with most international companies in hospitality, especially those from USA. I guess they might be afraid of law suit so they just provide what is safe. Hilton will officially provide just basic info if you want more they will direct you to said persons manager but he will only say what is his opinion and not Hiltons. Personal reference so to speak. I never will agree that what is said over the phone is a good way. How can you believe the other person is saying the truth if they do not want to sign under it? I am saying this in general not just in my case. I always believed that if you got nothing to hide (you done nothing wrong) you got nothing to worry about. When you buy a bike you want a written agreement to fall back on if something is wrong why would it be any different with reference?
I never put anything negative in a reference because I think that the person might do better in a different environment than ours, saying that if we find someone particularly difficult I will only put start date and finish date, no other details. The only person we ever had a major problem with got his union rep in to talk to us (he was a driver) and we actually managed to sort out the problem and he worked for us for a long time after the problem, so everyone, even employers, can change.
Tough one. Personally, I only ever give neutral refs, whatever the circumstances, others may differ. Tribunal is a tough game, but don't blink. Any sign of weakness will be pounced upon. Stay firm and "keep to the script", I.e. have your side of the story together and do not deviate or weaken too early. Most companies who wish to hold a decent reputation will generally settle out of court at the eleventh hour, hence "don't blink", as tribunals are generally bad for the share price or public image. On the reference point, if you are a good honest worker, then you will find employment, even if it means offering your services on a trial basis for a period at reduced rate, followed by permanent/full time at higher rate. Good luck, and just be true and strong, and it will come good in the end. Pete
also in references it is not what is said, but rather what is not said that is critical if they do not read / give a positive reason for leaving they it sends a clear message that the person was pushed / fired / encouraged to leave you are best when faced with this position especially if its a grey area to negotiate an compromise agreement and a preworded reference under the guise of redundancy, this gives the employee a clean break and the employer certainty over future legal costs / actions and both parties can get on with the business of earning / making money many companies use these compromise agreements as a regular part of business to move people on
You must be thinking these are wise words and you are proud of them eh? Do not know of you just have a roll over and die attitude or completely lost touch with reality but in any case you have to have it looked at!
Reality is I am a contractor, and there have been pleanty of occasions when myself or others have been told to leave a role. Its accepted amd normal. The shock that occurs to staffies is that they think a job is for life. It's not, youv'e been bulleted. Get over it. Get a new better job. Compensation culture is swallowing up this country. Why should you be compnsated for being told to leave a job? You are not wanted, for whatever reason - good bad total lies or whatever. the job has gone.............Say good riddance and move on.
Honestly? Can you then let me know where does it stop? Forced out of work (what ever reason) get over it, you get contracted to do a job and at the end not paid get over it, time after that you do not get paid again and they nick your tools but get over it. There is a contract between two parties but get over it if it is broken. What is the need for them then lets all not have any life would be easy I want something from employer I take it and vice versa. I do not agree with those stupid law suits where you did not see a 6m x 6m hole and went all the way to the bottom.
Same boat (contractor) and being finished up is just part of the job ....... mostly because, quite simply, that job has been done and doesn't need doing again .... It's only recently this reality has hit home to those who assumed their jobs were for life. If the employer was a complete sack of sh!te who acted unlawfully (happened on more occasions than I care to remember), just be glad you're not working with them anymore! It's a financial nightmare but hey, sanity is much more important!
The reality is that if an employer has acted unlawfully in dismissing you then you have the law on your side, so pursue it. If they say something that is untrue in a reference then use the law to rectify the situation. If you don't pursue it, or lose then case then they will say whatever they want. It's up to you. Negotiation prior to lititagation is really the best way to arrive at some kind of compromise. I fired my foreman some years ago for slowing up the workforce so they could work Saturdays and get paid overtime. I had a solid case against him but still got him to sign a pre-typed letter of resignation in return for a reference letter just stating the basic facts of his employment without mentioning the dismissal, all so I could avoid the possibility of legal action even though I was sure I would win. In short, write to your former employer detailing what it is that you want ie a decent reference, then if you don't get the satisfactory outcome then use legal means to get satisfaction. All of this takes time though and you may well find that you have found another job by then and this is just a distraction from that process. Only you can make that judgement call. And if you get really fed up with others pulling your strings you could always start your own company and become the boss, hiring and firing as you see fit.
I've worked for a couple of large global companies, as an employee, not a contractor. It was policy at both companies to only confirm start date, end date and position (s) held. I always thought it was illegal to give a negative reference, the only way to give a negative reference was to refuse to give any reference at all. If you've not done it all ready, get a mate to call for a reference and record the call. If they give an unfair reference, then you have the evidence you need for your ET.
