Hi All, I have a 2010 Multistrada 1200 S Touring with a full Quad D exhaust with carbon mufflers. Everything else (engine-wise) is stock. I’ve recently bought and installed Tuneboy Tune + Cruise + Quick shifter. However, I bought it mainly for the Cruise Control and the Quick-shifter as the bike has always performed flawlessly with just the exhaust (despite the typical low rev surging which I got used to and learned to circumvent by switching to the Urban mode while in traffic). Please bear with me as I take you through this "novela". When I first installed Tuneboy I felt the Cruise worked well on its own but both the Quick Shifter and the Trims had some niggles. The Quick-Shifter worked well on downshifts but sometimes fell into neutral on the upshifts and wouldn't go up no matter the strength I used to upshift. I attributed this (at the time) to poor adjustment in the software. I tried adjusting it but changes performed via the options menu on the TuneboyTrim program never seemed to be recognised by the ECU. Whenever I reconnected the bike to the laptop, my prior changes appeared to have been reset to random settings. Couldn't figure this out. Then the trims! These were a different story altogether. I first installed the following 3 trims but none worked well enough, especially at lower revs: - QD - too rich, used fuel at an alarming rate - I could see the range going down by 10 miles chuncks at a time! - Arrow - the best I’ve tried but with very weird and random surging at lower rpms/ throttle positions. For e.g., I would be riding normally and all of the sudden the fuel would get cut-off and the bike started stuttering until I pulled the clutch and got the revs higher. - Arrow ECO - worst than the above in terms of surging. Didn't notice any improvement on the "eco" bit. This was during my first trip with friends after installing Tuneboy and I got increasingly frustrated. I couldn't wait to come back home and try different trims and adjustments. Once I got back I reconnected Tuneboy and tried, first of all, doing a TPS and APS resets - no changes noticed. I then tried different trims, including what I thought was the actually OEM trim map: - Zero Trim - I thought this was the same as the original map but it still suffered from weird fuel cuts at lower rpms - Std - same as Zero Trim - MiVV - a mix of symptoms between the Arrow and Std files For my astonishement, irrespective of the trim file I’ve used and of the TPS and APS resets, I’ve continued to experience some weird surging and lurching at lower rpms/ throttle positions, even with the supposedly OEM map ("Zero Trim")! At this point I thought there was no point in continue trying any other trim files since even the "zero trim" didn't work. The issue was the same with all the trims, albeit to different extents and intensities - whenever I open the throttle the bike seems to temporarily cut the fuel injection, which leads to the bike stopping and then suddenly lurching forward in a kind of stuttering movement until it gains enough rpms. With the Zero Trim file in particular, the throttle bips autonomously even when it’s closed and I’m not touching it, again causing forward lurching movements! I was getting frustrated so I finally tried to revert everything back to standard and I have NO ISSUES whatsoever. The bike runs as good as before. One final test - I reinstalled Tuneboy without any trim, with the O2 sensor back on and just the Cruise Control - THE ISSUES RETURNED IMMEDIATELY! :O It seems to me that even without installing any specific trim file, Tuneboy already does something to the injection map just by installing the Cruise Control, which is incredibly frustrating. So, I concluded that I couldn't have the Cruise and/ or the QuickShifter with the OEM injection mapping. As I was incredibly frustrated and couldn't use the bike at normal city speeds, I had no choice to go back to stock. I have since tried to contact Wayne but had no luck with a reply. I've searched the forum thoroughly and it seems that most people end up finding a trim that kind of suits them so I'm kind of lost here. I would really appreciate your help in this as I’ve searched a lot online but didn’t find any answers to my questions. Thank you for the support. Cheers, Nuno
FWIW, I have cruise only but mine's a 2014. I don't remember there being any different files though, same ones 2010-2014. Cruise didn't mess with my maps as far as I noticed. I have stock exhaust. I could not live without the cruise after having had it.
Sounds like something is corrupted . Did you dl the files ? What version are you using and what tune file have you loaded before any trim files The std .dat doesn’t make any changes to the mapping so if you’re seeing a difference to OEM with just the std file installed it suggests that something is awry with the installation or files used I’ve had the full TB setup on a Diavel and now on a MTS and it works flawlessly once setup bar the occasional downshift but not convinced that’s not human error.
It’s funny you mention that because that was the only thing I didn’t check. I downloaded every file from the Tuneboy website as my kit didn’t come with any pen drive or CD, so I assumed everything was the latest version available. Regarding the std.dat I think there’s a misunderstanding. There is the std.dat which is an exact copy of the OEM ECU, which I used to get it back to stock, and the STD Trim file which is the trim file to use with the Tune + Cruise Map and that supposedly provides an OEM fueling with improved low revs. So, to clarify, the std.dat works fine in bringing my ECU back to stock but the STD trim file does not make my fueling stock when using the Tune + Cruise Map. I think I got it right but please let me know if I missed anything. Thanks! Cheers, Nuno
I have the 2010 model like you and have suffered with surging and strange throttle problems like you, I think I can help you but it is not the simplest thing to do. I believe there is some kind of difference between certain 2010 models and the newer versions, I tried everything from APS replacement and tuning, trims, sensors replacement with no luck (just a slight change in the behavior). May I ask you to check your throttle body bypass screws and a screenshot of your bike running while connected to the tuneboytrim (and the throttle balancement window on top) ? I would also suggest you to check the values of your MAP sensors (the value in millibar down below, one front and one rear) while the bike is not running, you can check them on the tabs of the MAP target on the tuneboytrim both front and rear. Post the results first
Hi Neo, Thanks for the tips. But I confess I will have to do some research before answering you as I have no idea what (or where) the throttle body bypass screws are. Also, I have the bike currently running stock so I have to find the time to reinstall Tuneboy. I will try to do it sometime this week and will come back to you with an answer asap. Btw, just wanted to mention that the engine runs ok at idle and on the stand, it's just while running on the road and very randomly that it cuts the fuel. That's what makes it weird. But now that you mention MAP that all starts to make more sense. I'll come back to you soon. Thanks! Cheers, Nuno
Take your time and ask here if you need some advice on the things I was suggesting to check, we are here for this . I know, this things are a bit complicated sometimes and as soon as you touch something on modern bikes it becomes hard to troubleshoot a problem... This bike has linked throttle bodies and an auto-idle function with very minimal electronical adjustments on rider's hand, mine was perfect at idle too but was really unbalanced in reality. The bike does cover many problems by itself but with tuneboy we limit it's freedom and "senses" (it does alter MAP sensors use and we unplug the O2 sensors for cruise and QS), forcing it to go open-loop all the time. It is not unusual to notice strange problems like this IMHO. The bypass screws are the big plastic screws on the side of each intake manifold, you can reach both on the RH side of the bike (but remember to check the turns on them, in case you need to return as it is now). MAP sensor value with bike turned on but not running is needed to check if both MAP sensors have the same value before running the engine. The dash gives an error only with a complete failure and uses the MAP sensor for both internal and external air pressure measurements so we need to check if they are worthy of trust Tuneboytrim has a window you can pop up to check the values these sensors return to the ECU. It would tell us many things, but we need to check that the sensors are more or less ok (it is not 100% sure, but the only alternative for us is replacing them) and check what the bypass screws are doing. Give us an update when you can
I think Neo has you covered .I agree , Bleed screws make a big difference on some bikes, others not so much When you load the Cruise and Tune file , don’t load a trim file at all and you should have cruise and std functionality without ex valve if I remember correctly. Once you get the basics sorted and cruise and QS working (finetuning the QS and LC is very worthwhile ) if you can’t find a trim file that works a dyno setup is highly recommended . Chris at X-Bikes tuned my single spark Diavel and it was peachy . I’ll have the trim file on a hdd somewhere if you want to look at it
Thank you. I'm also interested in learning about balancing the throttle bodies. They are a mystery to me, never having had to work on any. I've done my own valve service but wouldn't dare touch the the throttle bodies. So, monitoring
It really isn’t so hard to understand how they work, they have just 2 adjustments: - bypass screws. They just help the engine (Single cylinder adjustment) to breathe with very small main valve openings. They can even be full closed, but this will increase the difficulty of the engine to find the perfect idle because the valves are not independent, avoid stalling in certain situations and smooth up the very first throttle opening. - the main adjustment that will change the balance between the main valves, because it is not correct to think that two perfectly identical opening will result in identical manifold pressures and speeds even with a really good airbox. The really weird thing is that even with a fairly simple mechanism, dealers always prefer to replace them entirely if they need to solve something that request more than a bypass screw adjustment or clean . I know, it could be for economical reasons, but they do this even in warranty (without a paying customer) and the service manual report that they are factory balanced and there is no adjustment procedure . I think it is highly exaggerated, but I understand that it requires some time and a fairly high experience to achieve a good overall result.
I remember seeing an unrelated forum post regarding tuning/adjusting them. But it was brief for someone who knew the parts basically. Never having done it I don’t know where the screws are or which is which. I asked at that time but didn’t get a reply. I do vaguely remember that actual method the guy reported seemed detailed enough if you knew the basics. I need to see if I can find that post. Cheers Scott.
Yes. The main balance is the mechanical sync of the two valves, and it is the screw that you can reach with a really long screwdriver from the back of the bike, just under the tank. You’ll need to rotate the throttle body mechanism on the RH side (you can see it’s front arm in the photo) just like it would happen with a full gas situation. For this reason the adjustment is only possible with the bike turned off, and you’ll need to close the bypass screws completely before. The bypass screw will affect only the initial part of the balancement, the main will affect it all. I would suggest to avoid the main adjustment if you don’t have a real problem, and even in that case you’ll need at least a vacuometer.
Thanks Neo! This is great stuff! I've been able to locate the bypass screws (I think!) but I confess I was too "chicken" to mess with them. Unfortunately I have not yet had the time to reinstall Tuneboy (workload after layoff has been quite high and the bike sits somewhat far from my house so I didn't have the chance to go there yet). I'll try to do it this weekend - use MotoGp as an excuse for the misus..."you know, it's bikes weekend!" Thanks M@tt. Yeah, I tried this route already. The problem seems to be that even if you just install the Cruise, Tuneboy already installs some kind of trim to the original map. It's not exactly the same as running stock, which doesn't make much sense to me. Also, Neo mentioned the fact that we disconnect the O2 sensor, which is half true in my case since I don't have the nudge buttons. As such, I would expect that only with the Cruise on (no buttons and both O2 sensors connected) there should be no issues with fueling. Unfortunately, something does happen in the background. Hopefully this will just be the bypass screws! "fingerscrossed" The dyno is in my TO DO list but I thought I had to have the LC2 sensor so the Tuneboy program could read the data. Did you have to buy it? Or were they able to do it without one? Thanks again guys!
Sorry, I explained myself badly... I was trying to say that TuneBoy does alter the fueling, indirectly, even with a map without Trim or tuning capabilities. At least, this is my understanding reading the manual. TuneBoy does put the bike in open loop, so the o2 sensor will be disabled anyway, this is what I was trying to say. It is even deeper that that because the bike has 2 major approach to fueling: it will try to determine the fueling with the MAP sensors, then if the rpms will reach something around 5k if I remember correctly it will try to use mainly the trim tables it has inside the ECU (with the aid of all the sensors). It will check it’s “work” with the O2 sensors of course. When you install the TuneBoy, the bike will limit the use of the MAP sensors, but it would be better to say that it doesn’t use that method at all, and it can’t count on the o2 sensors. So... Yes, the trims are almost identical to the stock ones No, the bike will not fuel as before hope this helps understanding the issue
Ahhh got it! That part of the manual was a bit too technical for me so I didn't really understand it until you put it that way. Thanks for the clarification. So this means that 1) we need to see if MAP sensors are working correctly and 2) help the new trim tables by adjusting the bypass screws to overcome the issue with the lower revs fueling. Would a custom remap replace the need to mess with the bypass screws? And can I do one using the Tuneboy program without having a wide band LC2 sensor?
