Fischer Future Heat

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by PerryL, Sep 17, 2020.

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  1. Starting to get a feel as to why energy companies view me with disinterest - I hardly use any! And I do boring stuff like turn off TVs and Blu-Ray players at the main switch rather than use the remote for putting into standby! I hardly use the kettle but use the microwave to reheat after making big pots of tea or coffee.

    And now I've dumped gas!

    When I go solar, I will generate more power than I need and be a nett seller of electricity in the Summer.

    I am not going to be popular!
     
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  2. I sort of agree with your thinking, however...

    1/
    In the context of my posts efficiency is the calculation of useful heat the user gains in kW/Hr over the electrical consumption.
    The heating industry worldwide uses terms like COP and SEER to make meaningful comparisons; please google for a more detailed explanation.
    Seasonal efficiency is the way of measuring the true energy efficiency of heating and cooling technology, over an entire year.
    This measure gives a more realistic indication of the energy efficiency and environmental impact of a system.
    Seasonal efficiency demands a new rating system for heating and cooling products, which must be used by all manufacturers.
    These are:
    • The Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio (SEER) value in cooling
    • The Seasonal Coefficient of Performance (SCOP) value in heating
    Basically an air sourced heat pump may consume 1kW every hour at 0°C, but it produces 2.5kW of usable heat every hour to warm water or your home.
    At 8°C Ambient outside it may produce 4kW every hour of usable heat to warm water or your home.
    At 16°C Ambient outside it may produce 6kW every hour of usable heat to warm water or your home.

    Therefore in simple terms 250% efficiency is the minimum you would expect.
    Energy isn't created (this is impossible as you correctly pointed out), but instead moved and made useful by the refrigeration cycle.
    Stand in front of an air sourced heat pump in Winter and you'll soon feel where the heat was "stolen" from.

    No matter what the season a direct electric heater produces 1kW of heat for every 1kW consumed.
    When comparing a Gas boiler some of the energy in the gas is lost to the atmosphere in the exhaust, hence the 97-98% efficiency rating.

    2/
    First of all it is impossible to have any losses in any physics or chemistry.
    You CANNOT destroy energy... you just move it from place to place.
    That is a fundamental principle on which all physics is based.
    I think it was that point you were making.

    The phase change materials are a brilliant way to store energy when it is abundant and then use it when required.
    It's main use is in renewable energy and not home heating.

    Fischer's 2019 accounts make interesting reading.
    Gross profit of 50%!!!!!
    £26M T/O, GP was £13M with Admin taking £11M of that.....
    Must be a few directors with a Ducati collection that would make Elsies Shed look like a poor effort.
     
    #82 AirCon, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2020
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  3. I love these.
    CO2 generators for Green Houses. :bucktooth:
    Burns natural gas to boost the temperature in the greenhouse and add CO2 to the air, helps the little plants grow.
    May be I should get one for the garden... :thinkingface:
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. So why are you on the Ducati forum?
    Surely Bandit riders have loads of specialist sites for riders of such persuasion.
     
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  5. I was trying to be ironic and funny, but failed with you, obviously!

    I have not visited a Ducati dealer in over a year! But, I did used to have a GSXR-750 Suzuki that was faster than any Ducati that I've owned, but it was just jest! Although the comparison with Desmodromic valve operation is salient - I would argue!

    Now, I just have two Ducatis.

    And that has made me just realise that I have written off two! I may be able to claim the "Ducati Wrecker" champion title!
     
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  6. Ok. I missed that, me bad.
    We've also written off two Mutleys, but remain (mostly) here to talk b0llocks on this forum. :bucktooth::upyeah::)
     
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  7. Oh well, I don't have the record then! Anyone done more than two?
     
  8. I've been following this thread for days now ..... and trying to stay out of it ( and now I've failed ) .

    Physicists have a jokey offhand way of " explaining " the laws of thermodynamics .... I used it a lot in teaching .

    First Law says - you can't possibly " win " in terms of energy
    Second Law says - the best you can hope for is to " break even " , and only at absolute zero
    Third Law says - it's impossible to get to absolute zero

    ... what was the question again ? ..... :)
     
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  9. All "losses" can be explained, can they not?
    Never done any teaching myself, just been a "Do'er"... ;)

    also we are now able to get within a few millionths of a degree of Absolute Zero.
     
    #89 AirCon, Sep 20, 2020
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  10. You are correct , they can indeed be explained ..... but it can get a little complicated .

    Anybody fancy "twisting their melon" with Gibb's Free Energy ?
    ..... on a pleasant Sunday afternoon ?

    If not , how about just getting a nodding acquaintance with " Maxwell's Demon "
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_demon

    Imagine that the universe has an eternal accountant that has kept records of every scrap of energy
    that ever existed .....

    ..... or not ?

    :)
     
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  11. If anyone still has the will to live after reading this tread: I think that I have a relevant answer to all of the "no free power sh1t". The Fisher unit is guaranteed for 10 years. It has no moving parts and so I think that the primary cause of failure is that the crystals of Sodium Whatever, have no more heat to provide. And so the 'fix' would be to buy new crystals and whatever they charge (will be thousands, probably). So after paying several thousand to install, and hundreds to recharge , then, although the electricity costs will be small, I would guess (and it is a guess) that over, say, 20 years, running costs compared to electric conventional, or gas, will be not that different. But I have dumped gas.

    This is just a statement to alleviate the worrying that I am a misinformed idiot who has been ripped off.
     
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  12. Perry to anyone who has read some or all of this thread, it should be apparent that you are happy with your decision, which was made of your own free will, after exploring various alternatives. Thats good enough for me.
     
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  13. I still "enjoy" being shocked whenever I run a hot tap, hot water come out! I am easily amused!
     
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  14. I have been following this post with interest, and it appears that the jist of it is that if you apply an electrical current to salt water you get an abundant supply of hot water.

    To independently test this I took myself to Seaton Carew, a holiday destination of my schooldays, and donned my budgie smugglers round the back of the famous Art Deco clock tower at the bus station, stuffed a couple of ‘D’ cell batteries (in series), in an anatomically enhancing arrangement, in said swimwear, and waded out into the welcoming North Sea.

    The results were, I have to say, less than encouraging, not even a tingle, although the hypothermia and subsequent interview with the Hartlepool constabulary was real enough, and it was suggested that I did not try again with the ‘PP9’ upgrade I was considering.

    Perhaps I could try again with a lithium battery, as if this didn't heat the sea, the secondary benefit of spontaneous combustion on exit should warm things up, great balls of fire style.

    It’s a slow Sunday, but hopefully this helps clear things up.....
     
    #95 Mr Bimble, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  15. Clear as muck now lad....
     
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  16. You are not an idiot, well I don't believe so; you are however misinformed.
    Your running costs compared to conventional electric (Boiler) will be IDENTICAL.
    IMHO you have made a mistake switching off you gas and going to direct stored electric heat.

    Fully accept that you are happy, but I wouldn't want anyone else to make a decision on the misinformation you are offering. in that last post.

    PS
    You've stated that Gas Boilers are banned in Commercial property.
    That isn't true. There is an announced goal to prevent new Gas Boilers going into new builds from 2025, however no one in the industry has any faith in that staying true.
     
    #98 AirCon, Sep 20, 2020
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  17. This reminded me of this device...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube


    On another similar subject, many years ago I was fascinated by Peltier's work.
    Got hold of a Chip of it and connected to a PP3.... Just to see if it got warm....
    Burnt my finger and got it ice stuck to my thumb the other side...
    Amazing things...
    [​IMG]
    about £4 nowadays from Amazon.
     
    #99 AirCon, Sep 20, 2020
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