Rees Mogg of course suggested it might be 50 years before there is any noticeable economic uplift resulting from Brexit... Have you got 50 years left? Quite likely I haven’t.
Is it true that Brexit will damage the EU economy - yes, undoubtedly. As it will the U.K. economy, just not as much in % terms. Is it true that agreeing to Cameron’s requests would have prevented Brexit? That is speculation - there’s certainly an argument for that, but we can’t know for sure. Two things: U.K. already had the best ‘deal’ of all EU Member States (with Thatcher’s negotiated financial rebate and various policy opt-outs), so unsurprisingly the EU was not keen to give in to further U.K. demands for special treatment. Secondly: the Euro-sceptics in the Tory Party have shown pretty much zero interest in backing off. At every opportunity they have pushed for a harder Brexit, a ‘cleaner break with the EU’ (regardless of what is in the national interest). So I’m not sure they would have wandered off into the sunset if the EU had given Cameron some additional concessions. If anything I suspect that would have emboldened the euro-sceptics’ perception that they could bully the EU further (“they need us” / “we hold all the cards” etc, etc).
Doesn’t matter. It’s not the right kind of truth. This has been established with many of this lot often. Open minds means your a right wing facist. Apparently. Because those with open minds seems to see holes in all sides....
So here’s a French prospect on this, which does not account for the entire country, of course. The Economic Europe was created by those who had suffered WWII damage. It started around coal and steel trading circa 1951, and later became what you guys refer to as the EU. My personal belief is that moving away from any form of project where nations gather around a common goal, a partnership, whether economic (ie EU) or strategic (ie NATO), should be considered as some sort of «regression» in the global peace keeping efforts we’ve been spending energy, gold, and too often, blood, on. That being said, it may be that the time has come to accept to regress, in order to protect national orders. That may be a temporary sacrifice we have to accept. That’s a difficult call. As you may know, we have « Frexit » believers in France. That is mostly far right minded people, who do not like to have anything to do with foreigners in general. Again, as peace has proven to be a very unstable state for humanity through its history, may be we are at the beginning of a new cycle where the « western world » will no longer prevail, both in terms of stability and global power. Because what made the « western world » so powerful since WWII is actually its ability to form numerous partnerships ensuring its stability, where other collapsed. I have been doing my fair share of duty in Africa and the Middle East and those areas are plagued with division and inability to set up durable partnerships. Let’s simply hope Europe is not headed that way. Again.
Fair point. Though I’ve seen hardly any Leave argument that holds any water, apart from the very abstract “sovereignty” one (which means little in reality). The EU isn’t perfect - sure. I’ll agree to that. Not every decision it takes is equally advantageous to all its members. Sure. But looking at U.K. governance in recent years rather puts those arguments in perspective...
Must be fascist, its not communist . Sorry there are just so many people saying that if you are trying to make things better you are either fascist, nationalist, communist or at least a racist. How about Brexit? I hope you are not offended if I ask what is the reasoning that lead to that ? Edit: There are also people in Finland that would like to leave EU and bring back the old currency (like UK now). They are called here populists, nazis, racists, islamophobics, nationalists etc. Now we have this a German Afd Co-Leader that is talking about more open business between EU and UK, EU cost cuts and leaner organization and we are calling her with the same names. I am confused .
Imho the one that holds water most is that you can allow people and trade based on UK demand from anywhere, with restrictions that are based on best business for UK. Is that actually what’s been done or even is it possible? No idea. As someone who believes we are better in one Europe (although sure many left on this forum don’t think that’s the case) I voted leave reluctantly after an interview I saw with several business leaders. Context of which, due to the revenue paid into EU and the level of trade, a leave vote would give Cameron more teeth to renegotiate some of the terms so that we could vote again to remain on new terms/leave. Unfortunately, unlike the nationalist racists in SNP, once in a lifetime when said by UK govt was actually once!! So we are where we are. If people looked for positives, they’ll find it. Too soon right now, it’s days into a new power balance. Some (many) who post regularly on this subject are just negative people in life I suspect. The kind of person who sits in the beach in Barbados, cocktail in hand and a beautiful view and moan about how it’s too hot or the same people who sit at home with their lovely wfh job and decry those poor bastards who are getting deeper in to debt because of all this covid shite when they dare to go to work or, even worse, actually try and meet up with someone for a coffee or a beer. Happy to crash the economy, happy to kill people with depression etc but not happy to take personal responsibility and isolate if they feel they have to. It doesn’t affect them tho. So why should they care? Of course they will deny it, that’s what they are: people happy to drag down others who scream things like ‘free speech’ then love to close down others with virtue signalling and passive aggressive comments.
Between 30-40 years, can’t be bothered to check the exact length. It would seem a very small majority didn’t want to continue being an EU member for whatever reason they chose. You seem not to agree with the vote to leave for your own reasons at least you have a few years to bemoan leaving the EU just like those who didn’t like being in the EU did when the UK were members.
So, let me get this straight. The SNP and their supporters are racist because they want to keep their borders open to freedom of movement? Right, I can't really see the logic but shrug. Anyone who is utterly vexed by the loss of free European immigration (something I loved), and loss of their own freedom of movement, and that of their children, (dictated largely by the elderly triple locked pension brigade), is a whinger and complainer who has a miserable life. Words fail me here.
With regard to controlling immigration - that’s a tired old falsehood: as an EU Member State the U.K. could have applied more restrictive conditions on EU immigration, but successive Govts simply chose not to. And the Trade element? Maybe we can strike some new trade agreements ‘on our own terms’ now that we have left the EU, but to get anywhere near the advantageous trading position that we enjoyed as Members we’d need to replicate ALL the deals the EU has with other parts of the world AND remove the barriers to trade with the EU that we’ve just introduced... So I’m not sure that holds much water either?
You may not have noticed, but in announcing the new Brexit Deal on Christmas Eve, Johnson specifically stated that *there would be no barriers to trade with the EU*... That was either a) a blatant lie or b) shows how little grasp of the very important detail he actually has. Neither of which bodes well.
