This is indeed true - there is very little difference between an 848 and a 1098/1198 with the exception of the engine top end. They are built on the same line with the same staff, so there is little room to reduce the price while still making a profit. Other options are do do things like fit them with cheaper components, such as forks, calipers, shocks, wheels, etc. However, the profit can be returned in economies of scale where you can sell additional units at a smaller capacity, thus selling more units overall and driving down the cost of the common components. This also reduces your overall R&D cost per unit, manufacturing and tooling costs, etc.
Meant to post this yesterday, I'm currently on holiday, left the UK 5 days after I took delivery of my 848 evo :-( Been in Italy for the last few days & managed to arrange a Ducati factory tour at the last minute for yesterday. So, we were shown engines being built & then bikes being assembled & the tour guide pointed out 2 or 3 848 evo's being assembled, with this very tall American wanted to see Panigale's. We'd already been told that they were built on a different line & that we wouldn't be able to see this line. We walked round the corner to the cells where they test the assembled bikes, make shift screens blocked the view of the Panigale line opposite, pictures of the 1199 hung from above it. Tall American gets caught trying to look over the top & the Ducati people went bonkers. He did tell me afterwards that he could only see Panigale's, the Ducati tour guide said that there was a new being built that she couldn't tell us anything about. So...
HYM piston is completely new Ant...it's a 4V so needs 2 more valve pockets 848 cases were completely new to. They were the first to use the Vacural casting which was proved on the 848 before being rolled out on 1198. The 1098 used conventional casting... Interesting thread this
This is the kind of info we need! The same thing happened to us on a DSC factory tour when the Diavel had been announced but not pictured in full. As it turned out they were doing a production run of the Diavel so we were not allowed to see the finished bike / bikes being assembled. So why the issues if they were only 1199s behind the screen? Maybe they weren't 1199s... :wink:
But that's only changes to the piston crown which is easily derived from an existing (same-sized) piston rather than coming up with a completely new piston design. It would be interesting to know if other aspects changed as well along it's life, such as the little end size and bearings, gudgeon pins, etc, or if they had stayed the same. The Vacural process is simply one that creates the casing under vacuum to help reduce the amount of contaminent gases in the molten metal as the part is cast, making them structurally stronger. Are you saying that the cases on the 848 and 1098 are incompatible? It makes sense if they optimised/revised the original 1098 cast cases (both in terms of mechanical efficiency and materials efficiency) to create 848 cases, and then used these when they switched over to the 1198.
The big problem with making the Panigale engine a smaller capacity is it's stroke, it's just too short to easily make a smaller engine for a road bike. In complete contrast to the normal way of doing things, it'll need a longer stroke and smaller pistons to decrease the size, otherwise it'll end up with the characteristics of a 2-stroke. I reckon if they're going to do a small capacity super bike it's either going to have an all new engine or a derivative of the 848 that's beefed up to take the subframe mountings.
if there is, and its a new 848 I'm surprised there's been no rumours going round the press, no spy shots, and my dealer knows absolutely nothing.
There was rumuors the back end of last year but its went quite now. There must be a new bike in the pipeline if they've stopped the 848. Steel frame or mini pani?
But why must there be a new bike to replace the 848? The pani is doing very well, sales of smaller cc sports are on decline. Again, even the base pani with a smaller cc lump in, how small will the margins be to price it competitively? I am still sceptical it will happen. perhaps they might bring out a sports tourer instead, similar to the ST. That's one market they don't have a model in at the moment. or a pani strada!!!
Does this mean that I can place a couple of baked bean tins around my pistons on my 1198SP and convert to an 848 ?
Dont think pin diameters are changed etc. but development is. The pistons are getting lighter, oil control improving, materials need to hold up with lean emission friendly cylinder temps. The parts bin culture is long gone tbh. The vacural casting does improve quality and strength and hence why the cases are much lighter. Material thicknesses were reduced from something like 7mm to 5mm. It's now used across the board as far as I recall, but proven on the 848. Those cases were also the ones that started to loose the old redundant mounting points, like the centre stand mounts. The shrouding around the oil filter went AWOL as well. Tbh, I'm not sure if they're compatible or not, but they are very different not just a new casting technique.
Just re-read my earlier post & missed a couple of bits. Yes, a new bike was being built on the Panigale line & the scary tall American could only see what looked like Panigale's. The bikes on the other two production lines had no plastics (fairings/seat units), handlebars gave away 848 evo's. If he couldn't spot a difference... However the same guy was given a lesson in economics, he didn't understand why an Italian spec Panigale would be different to a Californian spec or the price difference, cheaper in the states if his exchange rate info was correct
