The case of the journalist who lost is home because the engine broke in the car he was driving should be a salutary lesson really. I'm no lawyer nor fan of legal action, ditto insurance, this is just an observation based on the world in which we now live.
Mark Hales case, thats very different, thats regards non compliant use of an asset resulting in its damage, same way if I borrow and bin someones trackbike, then its on me to either have had it insured properly or pay for it. Mark Hales (could) and should have had a policy in place to protect him from his liabilities but did not, a 1.25m classic Porsche isn't something to thrap about without some protection or legally binding agreement in place. He was found to have mistreated the car (over revs) and the punishment was he had to pay. Had bugger all to do with the track or trackday environment he was testing in, would have been the same if he was driving to the shops.
The one from a few years ago where he got going round the outside wrong ??? Wasn't there but have seen it. Have pics somewhere from Spa and the 'Six Hours' race of a guy in a MAserati Birdcage spinning out, luckily missed everything and then just carried on, fair play as he had paid in excess of €5m for the car !! Different league those boys ...
I was chatting to Kenny Brack at goodwood when he ran the Mclaren f1 long tail up the hill. they had no insurance as they couldn’t get any Mental
Oh I know all that, but suppose your bike leaks oil and the bike behind you and rider gets trashed. The same argument exactly applies. If you look, you'll see that I never said the two cases were the same, merely that there is precedent for ending up bankrupt having done a trackday without adequate insurance. I've actually also been told by those involved that in their opinion, the journalist did nothing wrong, so, like any claim, spurious or otherwise, it comes down to interpretation of the court which isn't necessarily infallible. The point you make just reinforces mine. You'd be mad to go on a trackday without third party insurance, (similarly mad to take someone else's expensive bike on one of it wasn't insured). I also think you incorrect in saying that it being a trackday had no relevance of you actually look at the details, but that's a different argument.
So you know all that but still don't get it. Its nothing like what would happen on a trackday if a bike ditches its oil, thats a risk of the day that you have accepted, there are literally tens of thousands of people that do UK and Euro trackdays with no third party insurance and no need for it,as there isn't a risk there that needs mitigating as all participants are there on the same basis. The Hales case was the owner suing the person he entrusted with his vehicle, if his car had been shunted by a 3rd party then he would have no claim unless he could prove Hales should not have had it on circuit, again thats nothing to do with the trackday environment. So no real relevance to this conversation.
Of course it does. It's about having the relevant insurance. You fire ahead and don't bother, but there is no law that covers you from being sued if something you do results in an injury to another rider. It's only a matter of time before a case is brought. Your point was about adequate insurance. Exactly. You say on the one hand the journalist should have had adequate insurance, and in the other blithely wave away necessity for what will at some point soon also be deemed foolhardy not to have. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm quite familiar with the case of the journalist, and have had an in depth conversation with an F1 racing driver instructor about the entire incident. You are fooling yourself if you think you are somehow shielded from legal action if you cause injury to another through recklessness or negligence just because it's, like, on a track your honour.
Good for you, and you still don't get it and I can't be bothered to explain it to you, when the penny drops and you have something valid to add to this discussion please do pop back. Anything regards Hales is neither valid nor pertinent to save you regurgitating irrelevant twaddle.
You don't take third party insurance and you are over reacting to a suggestion that this may be foolish with personal abuse. I suspect that deep down you feel uneasy about this, and are over-compensating with aggression. I'd suggest you carefully read the article posted above. I won't interact with you further.
By awkward do you mean he has deleted his posts in the internet equivalent of taking his ball home and sulking?
The way I see it on track is there are 3 scenarios: 1. You bin your own bike on your own completely at your fault like the bloke in the link, hard luck. 2. You have an accident because of negligence of the organiser or circuit owner, i.e they don’t adequately clear up spilt oil, or a known fault with the track. Tough to prove. 3. Someone knocks you off, or you fall off because they spill oil in front of you from either bad luck or bad maintenance. It’s basically seen as a risky event that you are solely responsible for your own costs around points 1 or 3 above, everyone knows and understands that. The insurance costs are so high that it will price out the majority of people, circuits and TDO’s will close and the whole industry fails. I’m not saying I know the answer but with deaths and serious accidents not being as uncommon as we’d like I’ve not once heard of a law suit being thrown around.
Apologies, he hasn't deleted his posts, he has just blocked me hence they are visible when I log out but disappear when I log in. @Flatty if you can read this, you have proven my point, nothing you have posted is relevant to this discussion or UK and Euro trackdaya in the slightest, you are spouting nonsense and don't like being called out on it. As for over compensating, for what? I do multiple uk and euro trackday per annum, I take groups of up to 24 on euro track trips and no one, and by no one, I mean zero takes 3rd party cover and I am yet to meet anyone outside of my immediate circle that has, what does that tell you? If you confuse being direct with being aggressive that's your issue not mine.
I wondered what was going on… flatty blocked me too, so I couldn’t read his input. I thought dibble was having a tussle with himself
