Why should there be a £3,000 price difference between the Mutli 1200S and a KTM1190 Adventure? Both got 150 bhp with power modes and electronically adjustable suspension. Both relatively small volume European manufacturers in comparison to the Japs. Don't get me wrong, I love my Multi, not thinking of changing it/going to BMW/Triumph/KTM, not knocking Ducati but curious as to peoples opinions. This is my 6th Ducati, yes Ducati are seen as a premium brand but KTM are hardly viewed as a middle of the range bland manufacturer. Answers preferably by post with a £20 note included:biggrin:
KTM registered 430,480 vehicles in 2012 - that's ten times what Ducati make. Economies of scale. HTH. Source: http://company.ktm.com/fileadmin/corporate/pdf/investor_relations/reports/en/00_GB2012_E_WEB.pdf
Thanks for that Antony, reading the report "Foreward by the Chief Exec" it states KTM had their best year ever with 107,000 units sold, still more than Ducati but not tenfold.
Sorry, you're right. I quoted the overall market registration in Europe for 2012, not KTM's own figures. My bad!
Is this a development thing? Do Ducati spend more on innovation than KTM? Certainly seem to be ahead of the game
Before it was released I was keen to see how KTM would improve on the 990 Adventure, I anticipated Multistrada performance and hi-tec electronics together with unique styling similar to the 990. I think they may have produced a fairly competent motorcycle however it isn't pretty, I just don't see it as an advancement on the old model styling wise . Comparing both bikes the Multi just does it better.
As an ex owner of the original KTM 950 Adventure I was curious to see what the 1190 would be like. It's fugly but I'd still like to test ride one just to compare even though I don't want one. I did a lot of off road on the 950 and i'm sure the KTM 1190 is miles better off road than the Multi which is crap off road IMHO. However when I go off road I'd much rather ride something more suitable and that won't make me burst into tears and slash my wrists if/when I drop it.
There are two areas where the Ducati will need more money, therefore increase in product cost; Moto GP.....and sexy red paint :smile:
Testing the new 1190 KTM on Friday, rain permitting! Still prefer the looks of my 1200 Sport T though. Is orange the new red; discuss.
If KTM made an 1190 SMT it might be a decent option to the Multistrada but they'd have to have had it on the market for 2 years before I'd even consider it because of reliability issues. I do like my 250EXC though but that's only because it's a 2-stroke and I can change the power valve spring and make it wheelie off the throttle in 3rd gear whatever kind of surface I'm riding on.
Agreed, if your going to get some loose gravel under your wheels do it on something that is well suited and you don't mind dropping for fun. In truth the Multi's limit is getting from the main road to the campsite pitch where I am putting my tent up, it seems to cope with that admirably. Although I have belted it up and down a good few highland single track roads gravely greeny stuff in the middle.
I tested the Ktm and the Aprilia before trading in my Multi for a 13 model. The engine of the ktm was sublime and it was incredibly light but in everything else it was way behind. The fittings were piss poor and the thing looked like it had been put together by a 3 year old. I just couldn't live with that however good the engine was. as I bought the standard it was around the same price so a total no brainier for me. Go and have a look for yourself to compare and then you will realise how good a package the Multi is.
Brand image. That's mostly the premium you are paying for. Say Ducati to people who know nothing about bikes and they still know what you're talking about. Say KTM and they haven't a clue. That's a brand image that comes from having your bike in a New York museum as a design icon, multiple WSBK victories and championships, product placement in a load of films, Italian kudos etc. etc. It's 3 grand more because they can sell it for 3 grand more. So it's worth 3 grand more, QED. You can play the same game with all sorts of products, especially high-end ones, and you'll get the same answer. Ducati has greater emotional worth than KTM, whatever it may or may not look like objectively.
In just over two weeks time I'll be taking my Multi up the Col du Sommellier for the Stella Alpina and I'm sure it'll be ok. I'll stop at the snow line and my feet might be flapping about a few times but if guys can get Harleys up there I'm bloody sure I'll get the Multi there as well. there's no way that it's a 'competent off roader' but nor am I so we're well suited and the GoPro will be recording every inch of the way so it should provide some entertainment for the masses when I get home
As Glid said, its because Ducati are placing their product at the top of the market. Its something people aspire to own, and will therefore pay a premium for. How much it actually costs to manufacture and distribute is imaterial. The question of whether they would sell more if they lowered the price is pointless, because they sell all they can produce anyway. My mts got taken up a number of forestry tracks in the alsace, some that were simply dirt, and a couple had some lovely washed out gullies. We negotiated fully loaded, two up, and the bike perfomed admirably (ok so i got a puncture, but my tyre was nearly bald at the time). I do agree that if I were doing proper trail riding then I would take my enduro bike, but then I wouldn't take it to France for a week two up... p.s. BDG, I miss your old avatar of you in the river crossing :wink:
Hi Andy, I'm not trying to be condescending so please excuse me. I've been up the Col du Somellier on my KTM 950 to the top. I'm going this weekend on my KTM 690. Day 1 is 600 miles to Bardonecchia on the 690 then up the Col on Day 2. I know the Multi can do it BUT I want to have fun going for it and quite frankly a 60 bhp 690 is still too much rather than a Multi in Sport mode. I'd love to try it on somebody elses Multi in Sport engine mode with enduro suspension settings, however I don't fancy a prolonged hospital visit. In reality for me it would be a gentle bimble on my Multi I'd burst into tears dropping the Multi whereas I'm resigned to binning whatever dirt bike I'm riding. It's all personal but dirt bikes are all about being a bit loony at times. I've wandered around the Sahara desert loads of times and clocked silly speeds across the desert and the best bike is a big (650) single. Still haven't found anything better than an old XR650R You enjoy your trip and I hope you get to the top, I'll suffer the pain of a 690 single getting there to do a week of off road round the Alps. I look forward to your footage. Enjoy
