I have been notified by EuroBiketrans Ltd, that they are being presented with demands for tax and duty when as third parties they provide a company service to transport customers' motorcycles to and from the EU for tourism purposes. In an attempt to overcome this difficulty, they have raised a Parliamentary Petition to bring pressure on the UK Government to make an agreement with the EU allowing motorcycle owners to use the services of transport companies and individuals to transport their motorcycles to and from the EU on a temporary basis, without any demands for tax and duty. A link to the petition and further information is given below: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/598889 . If you are likely to be affected by this, or support the aim of the petition, you may wish to look into the matter further. I hope this is helpful. Tom.
I thought there was quite a lot of info on this already and that there isn't a tax. Lots of people are doing this for Euro trackdays etc already and I heard it's even easier for road bikes.
The requirement for a Carnet is not unique to Europe and it is relevant to any goods above a certain value. Before Brexit, as a member of the EU club, the requirement for a Carnet to take stuff from the UK into the EU was waived. Now, goods like race cars, track bikes, musical instruments, professional equipment over a certain value, all require a Carnet whoever they are transported by. Third party deliveries of vehicles to a location in the EU to make touring cost and time effective is simply an easy target for petty bureaucracy. So far, appearing at an EU entry point for a holiday, driving a (legal in the country of registration) vehicle or riding a bike does not require a Carnet. I think someone on the forum has successfully trailered their road legal bike into the EU but don’t quote me on that. Andy
Obviously this is not a straightforward business, and making the appropriate arrangements before travel or transport seems essential. There is more information in the links below: https://www.motorsportuk.org/the-sport/brexit-transition/ata-carnet-to-europe-faqs/ . https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-a-cpd-carnet . https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/ata-cpd-carnets/atacpd12000 . This all seems unnecessarily complicated for a short tourist trip to Europe, but having the vehicle sent separately. I hope it is simplified soon. Tom.
I’m afraid to say, with all the current pettiness going on between the UK and the EU, I doubt it very much. Andy
A haulier told me that if you have your v5 and a plate on your bike, it’ll be fine in the back of your van. I’ll give it a bash early next year. Planning a trip to Almeria or Jerez.
been to france, holland and germany this summer with our own V5 road bikes in van with no probs. as per OP, think just when owner isn't present.
This is to do with Tony’s business (and other similar business models) which I’ve used many times. Unfortunately because of Brexit Tony no longer has a business. He used to take peoples bikes as a group, palletise them and all their luggage, and ship it all to a warehouse. All the rider would have to do was turn up at the airport with their tickets, passport and money. On arrival at the destination airport transport would meet you to take you to the warehouse to get your bike/belongings for onward transit to a “base/hotel”. On the return leg you did the same in reverse. This allowed those with limited time for a great riding holiday to make the most of riding around Europe without having to slog for 2 days there on motorways and 2 days back. Brexit has ruined this holiday option.
This is lack of knowledge talking now as I'm not familiar with what goes into this type of tourism, so my question comes from intrigue, not challenge. How has it caused issues and makes it not viable? Is it because the way to make it viable means you need volume similar to how the track days folks do it? Or because the admin burden means people just don't want the agro? Or is it a combination of factors?
My contribution to the Carnet for our track day at Almeria, added £190 to the cost of the trip for 2 of us. It also stressed me out because I described the wrong leathers for my girlfriend on the loading form. French and Spanish customs were expected to be intransigent so had to take the correct leathers as hold luggage. Paperwork had to be completed by a set date and could not be changed. So IME, a ballache and increased cost. Andy
We have just returned from the MotoGiro in Italy. A (non-commercial) race team organiser transported about 12 bikes for the event. We flew out seperately. A carnet was needed which worked out at £75 per bike. As others have said, my understanding is that if you travel with the bikes (in a van or on a trailer) and have the V5, you don't need a carnet.
Andy, I think the trick is not to be too specific with the carnet details. Our transporter just put something like "protective riding gear for 12 riders". I then loaded 2 helmets, one Lewis Leathers jacket and a pair of Dianese boots. Seemed to work ok for him and he has years of experience transporting race bikes around the world.
I provided the information requested which was clearly more detailed than what you were asked to provide. Andy
So how come track day organisers are still operating? TDO’s get customers to fill in the carnets and then produce them when required. Surely a business that relies on transporting individuals bikes and kit is no different to a TDO? I’d imagine a global pandemic has more to do with it than Brexit.
I'm sure Covid-19 isn't helping, but the matter of providing third party bike transport for temporary use in the EU has its own problems as covered above. Below is a message extract from Tony Barker of EuroBiketrans Ltd, outlining the problems for them: " ... literally dozens of our customers have written to their local MP’s, and I have had meeting with my local MP. It has been elevated already to Lord Frost post Brexit negotiating team, who would have us believe that they are locked in discussions with their EU counterparts, but this was several months ago and noting has come of it so far. In reality they have much bigger fish to fry with Northern Ireland, Immigration, Fisheries…. It goes on and on, so I don’t want to sound defeatist but I would be surprised if we find a simple solution before the end of 2023, if at all - sad really as all we are trying to do is bring much needed tourist income to the south of the EU ... " It looks as though an early solution is unlikely! Hopefully, the workarounds will help some. Tom.
will sign, but i wont hold my breath issue is the cost, there is a minimum charge for a carnet application , if its spread across 50+ bikes on a single /couple of trucks its not so painfull (but still a paperwork ballache) . but for an individual , having a carnet adds minimum £300 to the cost of a trip
