White elephant or a vital capital investment that will transform 'the north' (although it will stop well short of Kendal).
Speaking as a Civil Engineer who works for a bulk earthworks company any investment in infrastructure projects is very welcome at the moment, things seem to be picking up a little but its projects like this that will really get the industry back on its feet. Speaking as someone from the South West it seems to be a massive investment in an area which will have bugger all impact on a great chunk of the country, ok the North needs infrastructure improvements but this doesn't go far enough North to make much difference. besides will a new rail link to London really make that much difference?
Pretty much my thoughts. Besides job creation in the build phase, Im really not sure who/ what it's for?
Taking a different view, most of the rail system is pretty antiquated, slow and too expensive. Any investment to bring the infrastructure up to a better standard has to be a good thing. However, the network should be inclusive of all of the UK, extending down to the South West, into West Wales and by passing London to connect to Europe. They should also implement the mainline station at Heathrow. Duke
Political legacy project white elephant (not that it will ever get built). Use half the proposed capital to build affordable housing, about 250,000 homes and the other half to provide funds for 1st time buyers to get on the ladder. These funds would have interest applied which would over time pay back some of the outlay. The pay back would be 1000's in employment taking a burden off the state, freeing up of social housing where its needed, regeneration of small businesses and specialist suppliers. Better than getting someone to London 20 minutes quicker on expenses so they have time for another esppresso in Costa. OGR
If the government thinks its successors will be able to find £2billion per year for the next twenty years to invest in new transport infrastructure, fine. That's good news. But why waste it on a railway line? The motorway network is 10 times more important and still has a legacy of gaps and choke-points which desperately need sorting out. That amount of money would solve loads of problems. Once Britain's roads approach the standard of Germany's, then would be the time to turn to the ports and airports. Railways come a long way down the list of priorities in my view. Anyone agree?
You could argue that having a fast, efficient and cost effective train network you would get more people and importantly freight off the roads, reducing the reliance on road transport. I fear it is too little too late as the lack of investment in the rail system since the 60s has degraded the service to what it is now. Ironic that a number of lines, such as the Oxford Cambridge Line,are being considered to be reopened again 50 years after being closed. Regarding Germany, visited and traveled extensively in Germany over the last 30 years, it's motorway network suffers from similar choke points and gaps as ours do. The grass may be greener, but all it does is hide the cow pats better.
One argument is that the railway network, built in Victorian times, is currently operating at its maximum capacity and needs to be upgraded for the 21st century, the opposing argument is that the capacity issue can be addressed by adding a few carriages to most trains. Shaving 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham time hardly seems worth the expense. As a means to 'kick start' the economy it will probably fail. So yes, it is a long way down the list of priorities.
Why not consider spending a lot less to improve the existing rail network? Colleagues who regularly use the railway companies tell me longer carriages & platforms would go a long way towards reducing overcrowding & thus improving the rail travel experience. Funny how our local MP has newsletters stuck through our letterboxes telling us she is representing locals who will lose houses/land, yet her own website shows her staunch support for HS2. Perhaps in the same way she told people she would prevent Post Office closures, and then 2 local Post Offices closed within 3 months of her being elected. This could all be academic if the proposed costs for HS2 keep increasing. Would any future government want yet another PFI-style financial millstone around its neck? But then who said politicians view such propositions from the viewpoint of taxpayers when there are backhanders & directorships in the offing?
You could argue that. On the other hand, in the UK in round figures 90% of all passenger-miles and freight ton-miles go by road, 5% are air-borne or water-borne, and the remaining 5% go by rail. This means that even if the capacity of the rail network was doubled, it would make bugger all difference to the reliance on roads. It is roads which are the arteries and veins of the nation.
I think most people are missing the point, it isn't to get people from Manchester into London quicker. It's so you can get out of London and back to civilisation quicker
It isn't as simple as just adding carriages. Bigger trains = lots more weight = lots more electricity. As a consequence the civils and electrical infrastructure need upgrading alot. Don't worry too much about us northerners, they are electrifying the transpennine 'express' route, so you can get out of London and up to Manchester quickly. You can then cross into Gods County......
Unfortunately you have not troubled to indicate whether it is roads, railways, or transport infrastructure generally which you think is a waste of money. Would you care to clarify?
..........and had been renewed to some degree with supposedly better trains etc, yet in many cases, the service is worse; and speeds and times sometimes are't even as good as then.....
The HS2 railway isn't anything more than an EU directive to ensure a quick railway link from the UK reaches Warsaw or Brussels......:wink:
Not really. Better investment would have been affordable (dare I say council) housing on brown or even green field sites. New villages and towns near work hotspots or major trunk routes north/south. Who knows, could even mean you'd have industrial sites pop up, where new local infrastructure helps a lot, building new business and somewhere for the people to work. see and there were some who think I'm a capitalist, out for myself cnut ;-) power to the people
In the end it's pretty academic, HS2 will go ahead, go over budget and go nowhere to solving our transport infrastructure issues. The government will blame the last one for the fiasco and dump the whole cost on us poor unfortunate motorist by hiking car tax and fuel duty to pay for said albino pachyderm. Cynic I hear you cry!!!
