Nice looking bikes. Will MotoGP be going lecky or "green" in the coming years ? perhaps they do not want to go down that road with all the costs. If not many people are buying sportsbikes now then what will the returns be on the ££ Billions spent on developing Green/lecky ones ? Remember when Alex Rins beat Marc Marquez over the line at British GP at Silverstone in 2019 - in a straight fight. I was amazed and so happy for him and the Suzuki team, as Marquez had been so dominant.
I think every manufacturer has to be focussed on the green future but I don’t think leccy is going to be the way forward, I remain convinced that leccy is merely one of the stepping stones to a more realistic future of hydrogen power. The first step in the next few years is the move to synthetic fuel. I don’t know what that will be like for emissions or how damaging it will be to create the stuff in the first place but we’ll find out very soon. It’s well documented that mining for the minerals that make batteries is a filthy and environment damaging job, as is the current way of creating the electricity, then the battery has to be deconstructed and disposed of at the end of its short life which is again not good for the environment. Never mind the fact the national grid would collapse if we all decided to switch to leccy right now. In my opinion, (open to argument) the future of hydrogen is the way forward and luckily current ICE designs can be updated to run on Hydrogen. The problem is transporting and storing the stuff just now and managing it safely in the vehicle, these problems are yet to be overcome successfully for the commercial market. The development of the electric engine will continue as hydrogen fuel cell cars are essentially electric vehicles but with a hydrogen power station on board to create the power. In both scenarios, water is the end emission and the environment is better off. That future sounds good to me, we still have bikes with ICE with awesome sound tracks and gear boxes etc without the damaging results. Fingers crossed I’m right!
I see there is some talk about a satellite Aprilia team, but I really can't see Aprilia being able to support this level of investment and then also develop the bike. I think they will be the next to exit. I can't imagine Kawasaki coming back either, I think if they were, within the next 24 months, you would have seen spy shots and what not by now. Also I'm sure you would see the WSBK effort scaled back a touch, where as it looks like they are funding it as much as ever. I think Yamaha will be the next of the big Jap to leave. That leaves Ducati and Honda, I can see a CRT type thing coming back, maybe allow the likes of MV/Triumph to compete with a frame and Honda or Ducati Engine.
Hydrogen is much less energy dense than petrol as a fuel. H is not quite the panacea people assume it is. H will require a different kind of engine.
I think you’re spot on with the assessment on Kawasaki. They’ve shown no desire so far to get involved at all. The CRT thing might be a way forward but I don’t think it’s perceived as being a viable long term future by the powers that be. As to Aprilia and the rest of them. I think the key is developing a bike that other teams really want to lease. This is an income stream that pays for that effort. The reason a GP bike is so expensive, is not the actual parts it’s made of, it’s the research and development behind the scenes that costs the money. When the component is designed and the tools are made, in most cases, it’s not any more expensive to make 20 examples as opposed to 10. Use a fairing as an example. Computer aided design creates the part, jigs and casts are created, technicians lay up the carbon and presto, you’ve got a fairing. The cheapest bit is the actual production, the expensive bit is the hours of design and wind tunnel development. I dunno what their annual consumption of fairings are but it’s not going to be hugely expensive to create more for a satellite team. Assuming it’s a largely similar concept for all the other component parts then a satellite team with two bikes at a lease cost of 2 million euros per annum could be lucrative. But, it’s got to be a proven race winner with back up and future plans and the other potential teams need to want to lease it. I think Aprilia are rapidly approaching that status now. I’m mystified why Suzuki aren’t doing the same considering the potential of their bike. As I said above, I bet a feckin bean counter has got involved and used their “wisdom”.
Fact is, H fuel cells exist now but comparatively cost the earth. I’ve seen trucks never mind cars running on them. The tech is young but promising. As with other tech it will get cheaper in time. I think I read it it’s Yamaha that are developing the current ICE engine to run on H. From memory the problem is injector pressure which as far as I’m aware, would take account of your comments regarding equivalent density. H engines will need 2.5 to 3 times more fuel in the mix to even get close to current engines. Your graph seems to support that although i’m no chemist.
The main problem is containment. Esp at the pressures needed. Hydrogen is extremely volatile. Boom, it just wants to react and attach to other elements. 1 spark is all it needs and were all riding around sitting on the back of the Hindenburg. My 1299S is hot enough thank you. The other issue is that although it is the most abundant element, it is attached to other elements already. Splitting it requires energy. Nothing defeats the Laws of Thermodynamics or the Conservation of Energy. Maybe in the Marvel Universe.
The marvel universe Hydrogen power in your petrol tank It seems the justice league is closer than you think!
Fuel cells are as full of the minerals from mining as your mobile phone is, as your batteries are. I dont think fuel cells will find an application in motorcycles. Elsewhere perhaps and probably. But whats needed is the right technology for the right application. Small, compact and light are what we need.
This link might be of interest: http://www.hyresponse.eu/files/Lectures/Safety_of_hydrogen_storage_notes.pdf . Tom.
Thanks for that. A quick scan read shows thats there are loads of hurdles yet to overcome but none seemingly impossible. Certainly isn’t going to happen tomorrow though which is a shame. Interesting to see some for he pressures involved in storage - 700bar?! Jeez! I’m going to have a more detailed read at that later given a bit more time.
Yeah, 700 bar. And it needs to be as safe as it can from the halfwits of this world. Which I include myself amongst. For I have electrocuted, fried, burnt and hurt myself on numerous occassions. It needs to be safe enough for your average idiot.
Have you seen an electric vehicle fire dude? The fire brigade can’t even put them out. You have to wait for the things to burn out. One went up at goodwood a few years back and it took half the day to sort out! In Sweden I think it was they have a giant shipping container full of water, they use a hiab type arrangement and pick the car up and dunk it in
My dad currently holds the world record for a continuous Hydrogen journey https://www.businessgreen.com/news/...d-records-in-six-day-demonstration-around-m25
Yeah, I think I may have seen that on a vid. Its the Lithium stuff. Like napalm. 6 days to get round the M25. Impressive.
Lithium batteries suffer with something called 'Thermal Runaway' which for my limited brain is basically that when they burn they produce oxygen which fuels the fire, this is why the only way to extinguish them permanently is to submerge them entirely in water. I believe Formula E cars have a pump fitting where they can attach a water supply and it drowns the battery in water, I could be wrong. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about is it? can we get back on topic?
Very true, let’s get back on topic. I think the above discussion on alternative power is pretty relevant and worthwhile: may explain why Suzuki are doing this but it’s hard for us with our current level of understanding to figure out the reason why. Feel sorry for Mir and Rins right now but surely they’ll both get get a another ride? It would be travesty not to see them continue. I wonder how Livio Suppo is feeling? He’s normally quite outspoken so we might get an idea at the next race. Wonder if Davide Brivio knew this was on the cards and that’s why he left when he did? I doubt that though.
Apologies for going off on a tangent but I remember reading something about MotoGP moving to non fossil fuels and thought it might have some bearing on the decision ....
