If there was a head to head between a club & a pro racer using the same machinery, lets say a super stock, would the pro racer always have the quicker lap times? And if so where would the skill difference be?
It’s hard to define pro. A lot of guys and gals in the ‘pro’ scene buy their ride. Incredible but true! Elite pro’s another story. And level. Guys paid handsomely for riding. For a kick off they’ll have their bike on a knife edge set up for optimum performance. They’ll be very physically fit. They’ll have top drawer technical support and of course they’ll be talented and fearless. I’m just a track day bloke playing with his motorcycle and I know for a fact I’m quicker than some club racers. Put me in a race series and I’d come absolutely nowhere because I’m not quick enough. I’d soon be skint as well. Costs a fortune to go racing.
But if it was a one off on the exact same machine? e.g. a super stock. I can certainly understand that fitness would be a factor but where would they be more talented? On the brakes, pitching it in, getting back on the throttle etc?
Really difficult because pro suggests they are paid to be there and most of the people that other people assume are ‘pro’ technically aren’t. Let’s take bsb for example, most people even bsb riders are paying for their rides through sponsorship or deep pockets. Very few are being paid by the teams. also pro riders often race in club as well as bsb and usually come from club racing. I’ve seen with my own eyes sharp end bsb riders NOT winning club races but also sometimes winning club races. a lot of quick club racers are ex national guys.. it’s a rather difficult thing to define. There’s also a load more that comes in to it in terms of track knowledge and set up. Some riders like Lorenzo are ballistic if the set up suits them. Other riders could ride a barn door and still be half competitive. you also get motogp riders trying superbike and not doing very well and then super bike riders trying motogp and not doing too well. As said. Almost impossible to define. Generally speaking in terms of averages, the difference in laptimes between the top 10 in bsb to the top 10 in club assuming half of the bsb grid hasn’t turned up that weekend is a fair bit. equipment, training and set up does add up. That is not to say they are not more talented… We entered a freetech 125 race the other year which we led for a bit. One of my team mates an ex club racer who hadn’t ridden for ages but was very fast (and heavy) was spanking a front running bsb rider who weighed as much as his left butt cheek on our crap shopping bike. there’s riders in bsb who would get pumped in club. There’s riders in bsb who are unbelievable. there’s riders in club that are barely inters pace. There’s riders in club that could enter a British championship round and be at the sharp end.
Everywhere. I've watched pro's fly past me on a track day. Their trail braking is tremendous. They're much, much later and harder on the brakes all round...
Gets me with road race riders, not great on short circuit tracks, but absolutely amazing on a road with man hole covers, trees, curbs ect.
It’s pretty simple. Look at Thundersport 1000 racing and compare with BSB superstock. Same with 600’s.
So is that because the have a much better feel for grip and can better judge when it's about to break away. Well after much ferreting about on 't web here are some lap times for Cadwell park for these two race series, 1.31/1.32 and 1.27/1.28 does that sound about correct? Because it seems quite a difference to me.
About right. Phil Crowe I think does 1'29 on his bike and is a bit of a local specialist. Probably as good an 'amateur' as a measure around there.
I know the guy who won Bemsee in 2021 self funded but has given up bikes now as he simply cannot afford it. Shame as he is very rapid.
I guess so. As a track dayer bloke playing on his motorbike, I'm not looking for the edge. In fact I don't want to go anywhere near it. Racers do. They want to know where it is and stay as close as possible without going over. It's also worth pointing out that any guy that wants to be quick and play with the big boys, needs plenty of seat time. Which costs a lot of dosh however you approach it. Tyres, fuel, track fees and inevitable repairs.
And I think in some cases a lot of this 'seat time' may well be when they are really young and possibly not even on a track e.g. motocross, but it does give them a feel on how a motorcycle behaves and how they can control it. And I suppose in some instances when combined with well, just a natural talent, you'll end up with a Marquez.
@Spence probably has a good view on this. When he started endurance and all the other stuff he was doing, in the course of a year or two he went a couple of notches up in pace without doubt. If you have the ‘right’ habits, you can’t beat seat time However, I know plenty who have been racing years and don’t get quicker. Structure is as important as practice
No! If you class pro in the UK as someone that has reached British championship level (and even then thats a bit of a grey area), you will have some club racers as quick or quicker as people in some of the British championship classes. However, you look at the front end of those classes, and then you see the difference. Just have a look at TSL Timing race results.
