I have an ABS 1199 Pani with standard brakes other than Hel calipers on the front with EBC GPFAX pads. It is pretty much a dedicated track bike, though I haven't used it at all for alomst four years because of covid, having kids etc. I've just had the bike serviced with an authorised dealer ahead of going to France for a trackday and they've identified serious potential problems with the front brakes: 1. The Hel calipers (which sit on the original spacers) on original 330mm discs are a little too far out, in that the edge of the pads seems to extend very very slightly (maybe 1mm) beyond the outside edge of the disc. The dealer had said this is a problem and has caused the discs to warp. I've used this set up on a couple of tracks, including Magny Cours which is very fast and hard on brakes - it feels phenomenal. Has anyone else fitted Hel calipers and what was the fitting like? I don't know whether 1mm really can cause the issue they're describing. 2. Worse still, they discovered sediment in the brake fluid (they showed me a photo of the emulsion/crude in the reservoir). They guessed this might result from mixing different fluids. To be honest, I con't remember what fluid we used 5 years ago when changing the calipers but I strongly expect it was dot 4 (not 5 which I appreciate can't be mixed). Anyway, they say they flushed as much as they could through but can't be certain that there aren't more bits in there stuck, particularly in the ABS pump. The real problem is that they say that there is a risk of sediment coming loose in use and then blocking the system. They reckon it probably won't stop braking from happening, but risks the brakes not releasing (I had a nightmare last night about flipping the bike forward at the end of the straight...!). They also said the ABS pump isn't serviceable and so the only solution is to replace or rebuild the entire front system. The ABS pump is apparently £1,719 from Ducati! Total cost over £2,000 to do the work. I've also got my trackday this weekend... Has anyone any views or experience of this? Totally fcuked off... [edited to correct reference to dot5 fluid]
That's what I thought. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have used dot 5 at any time. I assume that sediment might otherwise form from atmospheric moisture - like when sitting in my garage un used for three to four years...?
PS, sounds like bollocks to me, I'd just put in fresh fluid and take it easy for a session or 2. You'll feel if the discs are warped. I wouldn't worry about 1 mm over the discs but you can always fit smaller spacers. Brakes won't suddenly lock from what you've said, they just won't release. Disclaimer: listen to strangers on the internet at your own risk.
do you not have a set of OEM calipers still with the bike? can you get 1mm machined off the spacers? I don't think thats the most pressing issue though, a really good vacuum bleed with totally new fluid and I'm sure you will have it sorted. the sediment I'm sure isn't serious and almost certainly isn't the ABS pump at fault.
If your discs are warped you would have the mother of all vibrations through the bars on braking, to the extent of making the bike unridable on a track. ABS on a track bike? Why bother? Strip, clean and re-assemble the callipers and add fresh fluid. Take extra fluid with you and a spare set of pads. Longer term, get a new Hel brake line set up just to be absolutely certain of no contaminants. Take the bike elsewhere for a service in future.
Sounds like take the bike out and see how it feels. Also sounds like later on strip the brakes down and replace ABS system with two new straight lines, perhaps with a rebuild of the calipers and clean any gunk out.
p.s. anyone seen the price on a front m/c rebuild kit (presumably a few o-rings and washers)? £214+VAT + £70ph labour. WTF? Why would anyone pay that rather than buying a new upgraded m/c?!?
Sounds like the dealership is covering itself from potential litigation if it all goes tits up without any of the remedial work they recommend being carried out. Knowing what the bike is going to be used for, there’s nothing unusual or wrong in that IMO. There is an ABS delete, commercially available but not cheap. On my track bike, I just had the ABS pump left in place and capped and ran new lines to the calipers. Depending on your front brake master cylinder, there’s a Ducati recall kit (CR144) that replaces the PPS plastic piston with an Aluminium one. I found it an easy enough job to do at home with basic tools. Andy
A little update as I know many of you will be worrying that I am dead in France somewhere. I'm not dead. In fact, my trackday was cancelled at the last minute for reasons not entirely explained. Very frustrating of course, though it might have been fate saving me from becoming dead. Either way, I now have a few months to address any lingering concerns about my brakes before the next trackday which is at Le Mans (turn one with any doubts about my brakes ought to wake me up...) I'm thinking that the sensible thing is to just get rid of ABS. Hel do a twin straight line kit to achieve this, but do I need to do anything else to disconnect the ABS unit or to let the elextronics know not to worry about it? Someone mentioned a typically modestly priced Ducati kit for this... Cheers,
I don’t know why anyone would want ABS on a track bike. The slicks alone would mess it up, but also, have you seen how much those ABS units weigh?
My friends track bike came without abs and electronic suspension. Whoever did it did not delete the warnings so it all comes up everytime the bike is run, then the ems light is on all the time. Bike has no problems, ems light was cured with a piece of tape.....
I've got some 'specific' nuts that I bought for my R1 that screw into the ABS unit and I left it in place. The reason being that while it was 2KG weight, it was safer leaving it in that trying to run a bypass box given that I was heading to Spain for 3 days. The emulators are typically quite expensive, I think for the R1 they are minimum £200-300 so you do really have to have an issue with 2KG for that
What does an emulator do? Can't I just unplump the abs unit, run two straight lines, and then ignore any warning lights? Has anyone does this? Cheers
Every bike is different. Some like the R1's will simply just go into limp mode and not allow you to ride, as the ABS system is fully integrated into the IMU. The 1199 'may' be okay with you just unplugging the pump you you'll have to remove the fuse also and may get CAN errors.
my ABS is completely disconnected, done by ducati Manchester 4 bolts plug off ABS unit completely, new lines run the old way, straight from master cylinder to calipers difference is night and day no lights come on
