Motogp, So Long To “race Shift”?

Discussion in 'Racing & Bike Sport' started by Paul55, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. Definitely. 100%.
     
  2. It was on some. It was way too easy to arrive in a slow corner in neutral so you ended up clicking to the top and back one. Not very effective overall.
     
  3. Mary I am eternally grateful for those fast as fork Handroids, I mean MM93 of course.:D
     
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  4. They hold up well in a crash. Almost magical scratch proof powers. Almost….
     
  5. A bit late to the table for that. Honda's DSG Style box is effectively the same as a seamless race box just with a extra clutch thrown in. The whole "seamless" box technology came about when Audi won Le Mans with their twin clutch box and it became clear that it affords X number of extra seconds of acceleration per lap as it's always in a gear. Formula 1 teams were straight on the case to do the same but the FIA banned the use of 2 clutches there and then. Clever as these people are they came up with a very similar concept without the second clutch. One shift barrel had forks operating 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th. Another barrel 2nd, 4th and 6th. These barrels are independently operated by hydraulics. When a shift is requested, let's say 1st to 2nd, the box engages 2nd whilst sightly loading the fork of 1st towards its neutral position. When the load is taken up by 2nd gear the first gear fork pulls 1st out of engagement. At the time, the team I worked for, used 3 drive dogs per gear and max rpm was 18000. The box has exaclty 1/3rd of a revolution to pull it out of 1st when 2nd is loaded and first is unloaded. If you miss this, very brief, window you have 2 gears engaged and everything is locked up solid. It works remarkably well given the difficulty. For racing, the risks of failure may be acceptable but for road use not so much. If you use a twin clutch system, like many cars do now and some of the new Honda bikes you have a much more reliable and safe system. That box has 3 shafts instead of 2. Again the gears are split 1st- 3rd, 2nd -4th etc but they run on 2 lay shafts, one inside the other and are connected to the engine by a clutch each. Now you can engage 2 gears at once without any issues. 1st is in use and it's clutch is engaged. 2nd is already selected and it's clutch is disengaged. When a shift is requested you just need to swap the clutches over. Disengage 1st gear clutch and engage 2nd. I have a car with DSG and, whilst cruising, changes are almost imperceptible. The ECU decides wether you're accelerating or decelerating and pre-selects gears as needed. These boxes are almost always in 2 gears at the same time. What you have is a manual gearbox that is automatically operated and can be used as either auto or manual.

    I'm no Moto GP fan so I don't know which system they use but I imagine it's the F1 style single clutch arrangement. So the box is neither 6 down or six up, it's just whatever someone wants it to be as there isn't a mechanical link from shift lever to box but rather a couple of switches that give a signal to shift up or down. Hence you have a button (yet another switch) for neutral.
     
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  6. That is fascinating, thank you.
     
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  7. It incidentally also explains the down for 1st. It doesn't matter where neutral is mechanically. If you tell the computer that a down input from neutral means first it'll go into first regardless where that is on the selector barrel.
     
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