Buyer Beware

Thanks for that vid.

When I buy a car or bike privately, I always take along a pre printed receipt which the seller signs stating he/she is the owner, their address make model Vin, plate number etc etc. I will add a line or two with the seller confirming there is no debt or finance outstanding and that to their certain knowledge the car has a good title. This might avoid later problems (can't do any harm). Assuming the presenter is correct of course.

 

I once bought a car privately, after doing finance checks, and about a month after I bought it, it was stolen. The guy that stole it came along on a mates car and a neighbour noted the reg because they were hanging about looking sus. When the car vanished the neighbour gave me the details so I phoned the police. The thief’s car was registered in Leeds and when he got home the local police were weighting for him. They got my car and held it in a pound. Turns out the guy I bought it from had bought it from a garage in Leeds. The owner before that had asked the garage to sell it for him, which they did, but never gave him the money. I may have got this wrong because it was a while ago, but, in English law my entitlement to the car could be challenged but in Scottish law it was mine because of the Good Title law here. There was a bit of argument between the Scottish police and English police but the fact that the car was stolen from me in Scotland took precedence of some kind and the car was returned to me (well, I had to go collect it from Leeds). It also turns out that the original owner contacted the guy who sold it to me to explain the situation and the police found out about that and they were thinking about charging him but I was never called to court so don’t know if he pled guilty or wasn’t charged.

 

fin knew already. my copper mate is never done telling me.

 

he's more bizarre/mad engineer that copper tbh. if ever you were to be pulled roadside, he's the kind of copper you want to be pulled by.

 

I was once almost pulled over by a Scottish copper & his mates...

Many years ago -maybe 1985?- I was driving fairly quickly south from Aberdeen on the road which leads south to Dundee. Somewhere after Stonehaven (brilliant spot for a weekend then) some oiks started tailgating me and not wanting any type of confrontation I pressed on in my Opel Manta "GTE". Now they pretty much followed me on every overtake which only made me think they were totally insane mad locals, and I could see there was a car full of them, so I kept pushing on.

I don't recall the details exactly but they ended up in the outside lane alongside me on a two lane, which was at a near dead stop due to traffic. I figured I'd probably be OK since there were so many other cars but I wound up my window & reached over and locked the passenger door -no central locking back then!

A huge head poked out of the passenger side of the yobbos car. The guy was apoplectic yelling something which I really didn't understand, and shaking a massive shovel like hand and holding with what appeared to be his wallet. I looked at him briefly and looked away as you do, and then looked back at the rear passenger window to see a similar guy pressing his face so hard against the window glass I swear it was flexing and wrapping itself to form the shape of his head. He also had his wallet in hand whilst cursing loudly. Again no idea what he said as the back windows clearly didn't open.

Their car edged towards me and the one in the front said finally in a clearer voice -though still very loud and with spit frothing-that I was a very fortunate small illegitimate person as they were police officers; but had been told to head to some incident as fast as possible and did not have a moment to spare. I'm fairly sure this was the only reason they were not ripping off my head and pissing down my neck.

As quick as all this started, it ended. As they pulled out and screeched off down the road, I let out a big sigh of relief, pushed the cassette in to play, fumbled with the cigarette lighter and thanked my lucky stars...

To this day its the only time I've ever seen a Police ID card.

 

i wont derail the thread (much) but if it's any consolation jez, i lived up that way for 10years from 89 and i rarely understood what they said. and yer right, Stonehaven wasn't the worst night out in 1985. we had a few pre motocross race day nights out there. messy.

 

I call bullshit. There’s absolutely no way on God’s green Earth he called the DVLA and someone (a) answered the phone, and (b) gave him accurate advice and information. Otherwise, a useful video

 

i have. got through straight away when the lads Docs for his Aprilia didnt turn up. as did one of the lads who bought an A5 and the Docs didnt turn up. both times the previous owners hadn't sent off the log books.

 

Having watched the video all the way to the end now, I’m not sure I agree with his understanding of the legal position vis a vis England and Wales.

It wasn’t entirely clear whether the car was refinanced before or after he bought it, but right at the end of the video he said it was after. If that’s the case, then title passed to the buyer on payment being made to the seller, as the law, in England and Wales at least, is that title in a chattel (but not land and property) passes when the seller has done all that needs to be done to divest themselves of the goods and/or when the parties to the contract intend it to pass (in this case, on payment of the agreed purchase price); s.17 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Even if, for some reason, due to the nature of the goods, beneficial and legal title does not pass at the same time* because there are registration requirements (eg: the sale of shares, and, IIRC, ships), the legal title would be held on constrictive trust by the seller until the transfer/registration takes place; see Re: Rose [1952]

Hence, having already sold the car, the seller had no title to pledge when he later obtained the logbook loan from the lender, and so they, and not the buyer got stitched up.






* The law of equity as it concerns the concept of ownership divided into separate legal and beneficial title developed from the early mediaeval period onwards after landowners needed to come up with a mechanism for allowing their trusty retainers and stewards to deal with their property in absentia while they were off on a jolly for ages sacking Jerusalem or trying to reclaim Normandy. In the end, it became the law which governs trusts, along with all sorts of other interesting things such as fiduciary duties, injunctions, estoppel, subrogation and restitution. To this day, “equity” still governs a lot of banking and insurance law.

There’s insufficient time remaining before the heat death of the Universe to explain it all through the medium of typing it out on a phone, so click here if you’re interested: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_(law)#:~:text=In the field of jurisprudence,resolve the disputed legal matter.

 

Yes. You must have fallen asleep after reading the first half of the first sentence of the second paragraph. Don’t worry - that happens a LOT in equity lectures

 

I got through to the DVLA a couple of weeks ago but I discuss if my new V5 had been sent to the correct address, spoke to a very nice lady, I was surprised I got through and actually spoke to a human! (Well, Welsh!)

 

Easiest way to avoid the issue in the video, change ownership online through the DVLA website

It will not work if it is an old V5, as, part of the changeover, it asks for the document reference number, which changes with every new document issued