I often read reference to counter steering like "just a nudge on the inside bar and it arrows to the apex" or some such. In 40 years of motorcycling I can't say I have ever approached a corner and thought, I know I'll give this one a touch of counter steer. So have I being doing it wrong all these years or perhaps counter steering isn't the only way to get round a corner or perhaps I am counter steering but subconsciously. What gives?
It's kinda like muscle memory / second nature when you do it. You probably do without even realising. Shifting to the left, elbow down / forward etc.. all these do the same thing just tipping the bike in. If you "Manually" counter steer right it will drop very quickly to the left.
I can almost guarantee you are doing it subconsciously even a very small amount at anything other than walking pace where you are completely upright.
You do it automatically. It’s just theorists over egging it. It’s like leaning into a right hander, it’s not like you’ll try hanging off the opposite side of the bike.
Yeah its one of those where the description is misleading. Basically, if you can get a bike round a corner you are already doing it. I had an instructor day at Cadwell years ago, and its one of the first lessons he taught me and it helps allot to know what the term means and how it applies ETC for track riding, but for road riding less so. There was a great you tube video on it but cant find it at moment, have a proper look later. Also worth a watch is the one about inertia of wheels and the impact on bike lean/motion (IE why bike stays upright once its moving, and how hard it is/how much force is required to lean a bike over at speed ETC)
I think it was in this book that I first read about it and realised I was doing it: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30397952...szEJUlspKEgNEGvK77sEhGt86Wu0|tkp:BFBMzNi5jP1j Yes, back in the 1990's we had to read books about things, after we'd ordered them with a cheque from a magazine article and waited 28 days for them to arrive.
That’s getting into gyroscopic force. The faster the wheels spin the greater the resistance to turn in. Which explains why lighter wheels make the bike feel more chuckable and a bit sharper say going into and out of a chicane…
Counter steering, some pull on the bars, I find pushing on the bars suits me better. It's a technique worth practicing (most effective at a good pace) and really helps the bike tip into a corner and stand up on exit too! Quite a few times over the years I've had to take extreme action to avoid hitting cars that pulled out on me, and really forceful counter steering was the only way I could make my bike flipflop side to side super quick to avoid an accident. Also useful for helping avoid those potholes that appear when least expected.
Gyroscopic forces, exactly. The only time I actually counter steer consciously is to avoid a discrepancy on the surface of the road, like a pot hole or some unexpected obstacle (rock, or other). For example, I will push on the right bar to « throw » the wheels to the left side of my trajectory, bike leaning to the right under me. If you do this at low speed (in town) and quickly enough, the bike won’t even turn. Just swing underneath you. That’s exactly the technique they teach you when you take your licence over here, when you have to slalom fast (timed) between road cones. There is no other way to get below the maximum allowed time without counter steering. Same for the « emergency car door opening » avoidance drill. At faster speeds, I do not feel like I am counter steering, even though I probably do it without realizing. Also, the counter steering is more important on bikes with larger bars (Monster, HM, HS, MTS). Sport bikes geometry make it feel almost inexistant, in my experience. Especially on Ducatis.
Counter steering or in modern parlance, positive steering, is not something a rider is taught in CBT, Mod 1 or Mod 2. If you go on to any more advanced motorcycle training, counter steering becomes a bit of a revelation because the technique genuinely makes taking a tight line in a sharper bend so much easier. If you ride for any length of time, it is something you pick up and do, to some degree, without knowing why. Take it further to the track, you won’t get round at pace, without using it. Book a Bike Safe day with your local Traffic division, most police forces do one and for £25, it’s a good day out. Not sure if ROSPA and all IAM Roadsmart affiliated advance rider groups offer one, but TVAM (based in Wokingham but covers a big area) offer a free taster day, riding 1 to 1 with an accredited observer. Again a good day out if you can ignore the hard sell Andy
Now that is weird… Over here, it is the very first thing they teach you during day 1 in motorcycle class. You can’t pass the exam without having understood that technique…
To add to the other comments, if you have ever had an under inflated front tyre, and the steering felt ‘heavy’ I guarantee you were putting more force in to counter steering without thinking about it. Tyre pressure, suspension balance, tyre shape, flat/dropped bars, will all affect the force required.
I don't agree, as this was one of the techniques that I was taught positively when I did my 5-day Direct access training back in 2001. It is a skill that I've continued to develop and use more as I've progressed with my riding and it is also reinforced with the IAM training.
As far as I know today, the 5 day direct access is very different to the CBT, Mod 1 and Mod 2. I know IAM Roadsmart observers who have given up delivering Mods 1 & 2 in recent times because it is so basic. Andy
We’ll be leaping into unsprung weight in a minute and why a kilo off the wheels is worth 50 pies of fun
We have all seen stunt riders pulling wheelies. And with the front wheel high in the air, they are able to steer, ride in circles and figures of eight. Clearly they are not using counter steering, consciously or unconsciously. So what alternative method are they using? And can anyone do the same?
11mph is 'the figure' isn't it?? Or maybe bit less...at under you steer with the turn, after that you steer against the turn. Try it on a pushbike... rear is fixed so that must be weight
Stunt riders on the back wheel are using the tyre's rounded profile to steer using weight shift. There is no gyroscopic precession in that scenario. Counter steering is simply (!) a gyroscopic effect, whereby turning the wheel about one axis (the steering head - let's assume it's a vertical axis for simplicity) causes the wheel to precess about a perpendicular axis. That perpendicular axis is the leaning left or right axis (roll axis), so the wheel's precession moment acts on the whole bike (the bike has no choice in the matter). Thus we get a leaning/rolling action as a direct result of the steering-axis turn. That steering-axis turn doesn't need to be much - just a nudge is sufficient as we all know and experience.
