Has anyone seen the latest 44T video they have done around trackday legal cases? Honestly I had no idea it was even a thing and seems that it’s massively on the rise! Bloke A makes a mistake and knocks off Bloke B. An apology and hand shake now is considered a direct admission of guilt, so, instead you have to keep quiet and wait to get sued… I have done a lot of trackdays and it’s in the back of my mind that I’m not insured, but it’s equally in my mind that if I make a mistake and knock someone off, it’s just as likely that they could make a mistake and knock me off, so I have to be humble to this. Is it something that people have generally been talking about and it’s been having an affect on trackday numbers? for me… I think it’s killed track days… I’d be better off going and riding hard on the road and if I hit someone (assuming I walk away) then I still have the protection of my insurance and legal cover. It’s a very black and white statement but surely it’s not the case that I have better legal protection for making a mistake on the road than track. Is this going to put others off?
Need to cogitate before committing to an answer but I wasn’t aware of a plethora of litigation resulting from an incident during a track day. Would have thought proving negligence/stupidity in a court of law would be a challenge without irrefutable audio visual evidence and/or expert testimony. It’s been a while since I actually read the full terms of an indemnity waiver but thinking about it, that is for the provider not a participant. Casting my mind back to the incident at Snetterton caused by shit bike preparation that, if organisers had carried out scrutineering, should never have got on track. I can also recall incidents caused by an absence of ability which should have been picked up if organisers actually policed track time. Perhaps it’s time to hold organisers accountable for the discipline on track and the quality of the bikes. Difficult, very difficult Andy
This was always how I viewed it too, but did make me think after that video. I think the main battering is due to financial pressure primarily, people aren't spending the money these days. I did 4 this year, if I do anymore I need tyres, oil/filter then want to use them this season so its basically near 1k to do 3 more track days this year which isnt peanuts to find. Also the other part for me, is some of the people on track who despite the risks seem to pass close, stand people up in corners and general lack of respect. Most also dont even have the decency to put a hand up when they outbrake themselves or similar. Riding standards getting worse and worse and no real policing (Just seen Andy's post so yeah what he said). Its been odd, some days I have done have been very quiet and its nice to have track space, but also bit odd in a way so things have changed this year for sure. Will I do anymore this year, not sure. Even considering selling the track gear at moment
I saw that video from 44T and also didn’t realise that it was now a thing, to be honest from what I hear and read about trackdays nowadays I’m glad I did them when I did and stopped about 15 years ago.
no idea about the litigation risk but i think its simply a case of people feeling increasingly worse off and TD will be lowest on the list of discretionary spending
Just sat through the video and the legal representative (didn’t catch his name) clearly states he’s not seeing an increase in litigation cases. For me, the video is all about Brexit removing the rights of a UK citizen to sue a foreign citizen for negligence in the UK, for an incident that occurred in an EU country. Shock, horror …. not. Clearly some riders do resort to litigation if they feel hard done by, which is news to me. The back end of the video, talking about whether your insurance underwriter will insure you/your bike for non public road riding or not, the ABR Festival for example, was informative but not surprising. Andy
There is certainly some scaremongery stuff within the video, and also some over-simplification of crash/accident sequences (imo). There's no point in adding to this because a whole corridor of worms will suddenly appear in a later post.
1 the unconscious incompetent … this that quite frankly are scary because of their lack of knowledge 2 those that get ca You mean hold the people with shit bikes or the people with an absence of ability accountable! why not have a few levels of training you have to pass before you are allowed on track? Including an attitude test
@andyb, In an ideal world, absolutely but it isn’t. In my limited experience, I believe at least 2 commercial track day providers I have ridden with could do more to reduce the risk in what is admittedly, a high risk event. Andy
I watched it a couple of days ago and this comment stuck in my mind. Why Al did not ask him, “How many cases a year do you get then?” is beyond me. It’s a key bit of information imho. I was about to post a comment on this direct on YouTube but changed my mind - why add fuel to it if it is (as I suspect) a very minor sideshow. Other than that I agree with @andyb (bloody hell, never thought I’d say that) comments.
A mate of mine was involved in a nasty incident in Jerez. Both British. The (quite badly) injured fella sued my mate. And he was successful. I’m not sure of sums involved but it wasn’t small change- he was hiding his money well in advance of a ruling. I reckon it must have dragged on over 6-7 years now. And it never entered my head when I’m out there having fun. I’ve been doing track days for 20 years and I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve had a close shave with another rider. I’ve had countless close calls with my own mistakes… So, do I ever think about consequential litigation when I’m out there? Nah, do I bollocks.
It staggers me that there isn't some basic scrutineering for TD's, other than the hated noise test. The DUK day I attended (only went once) was by far the most shambolic and terrifying TD i've attended.
Interesting reply’s, I know they said they hadn’t seen an increase but lots of comments seem to suggest that it’s happening a fair bit more than I thought. Which was 0, or 1 Karen per year… maybe a separate thread but is no one now able to operate with a fair moral compass and respect for others without everything having to be subject to litigation. Trackdays also have been getting sketchier, I’ve been along with my mate loads to trackdays where in essence he’s using it as a test day for BEMSEE, and it does make me feel quite awkward because it’s just a fact that racers are a different level of speed (normally) and commitment/aggression (definitely) to all of the rest of us
https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike-blog/2018/03/track-day-issues/amp/ https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...surance-directive-removal-of-vnuk-from-uk-law
Interesting. But did the private members bill ever get passed into law? Having watched the video, the answer appears to be ‘yes’.