I would add: maybe, as ever, the solution is a mix of powertrains. Without demonising users. Back to location being everything, I cant see electric being much use on a northern Isle off the coast of Scotland..petrol or diesel will continue to be essential for the foreseeable. There is reason to reduce the size and weight of vehicles. It is obvious and it is simple physics that when weight and size increase, more power is required. Electric cars with supercar performance are not really getting the point and are a con, pretending to be ‘green’. Electric pick-up anyone? Get real. Anyone who genuinely is claiming to ‘save the planet’ or being ‘green’ will not be using any of the large EVs. Define large? Anything bigger than required for your journey and occupants.
I have a 60 mile (each way) commute and I do not charge at home. It is perfectly manageable. I am not saying it is perfect for everyone, however for what a lot of people would call a long commute it is no less convenient that petrol/diesel, and is a lot cheaper to run. You are right, there will be a mix, with big emphasis on synthetic fuels if the economics of it work (I haven't looked into any details of volume or cost). However, the companies are being forced down avenues by legislation at the moment that are EV focussed. If that doesn't change it will be impossible for them to produce new ICE stuff and the synthetic fuels will be for any surviving/classic ICE.
You only need to drive past most petrol stations to see that the infrastructure isn't there. Two or three charging points as opposed to 16 or more fuel pumps. And that's before anyone is using them, or any are "out of service". For this to actually become a serious alternative to petrol/ diesel, they need to start remodelling ALL petrol station forecourts. And very soon, if the deadline being bandied around is to be taken seriously.
Just installing more charging points is nowhere near enough. Would have to upgrade the national grid substantially. And that's still not enough - would have to increase electricity generating capacity substantially first. A long way to go ...
My last full time work in the UK meant driving up to 400 miles a day on mixed roads. Ladders on roof rack, all weathers. Diesel was the only way. A mix of rural, motorway, town work was required. I would be very interested to see actual total emissions comparing production of ice vehicles to EV AND actual emissions from production of diesel, petrol…electric. These would need to include production of wind turbines (including the oil used in the gearboxes, est. 200-800 litres each...! ) and the house sizes concrete slab that they sit on. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solving-cements-massive-carbon-problem/ I see a future for ice alongside electric. What I do not see is any honesty being used in the discussions about the options. Remember, while electric cars are emissions free (apart from tire debris, and EVs have increased tyre wear) electricty production is not emission free (even renewables have impact..).
You do realise that you're not allowed to upset the EVangelists by pointing out the obvious flaws in their arguments, don't you?
I seem to remember reading an article by Volvo a few years ago that did a comparison and they said that an electric cars production emissions would break even with an ice car at around 90,000 miles. Probably needs a new battery by then though.
How many of the hundreds of petrol stations you pass do you actually use. Even on longer commutes I would have maybe just 2 or 3 that were my stations. Anyway, that is a distraction, because most people wouldn't even have to charge publicly (or rarely). Most will charge at home or work or once a week somewhere depending on their usage. If you are topping up every day at home (the cheapest way), most people would never need to use another charger unless on a longer run. If I do charge anywhere it is a Tesla Superchargers, generally South Mimms where there are over 30 of the things. They are conveniently placed at a lot of service areas where after a couple of hours driving you quite fancy a snack or toilet break anyway. There are a lot of charging points out there already, and as stated most people shouldn't really have to use them. Octopus energy (and I am sure others) will actually pay you to charge at certain times of night because they have a surplus of electricity they need using. I'll say it again.... most people would only ever need to charge at home, so it is a few metres of cable to the unit. I did say it isn't for everyone. The costing is about as transparent as insurance companies. I think we would all be interested, however getting the truth is probably unlikely. I am far from upset. I'll freely admit to it not being for everyone. I am just putting an opinion out there based on fact and knowledge from running one for a year. I took a chance. I wasn't 100% convinced when I did because I heard all the same old arguments. However, for me it works. I get the same performance (acceleration) on the cheapest Model3 Tesla as the BMW M135i it replaced, it was cheaper to buy, almost non-existent servicing, and has saved me around £8,000 in fuel costs. I couldn't care less if someone does or doesn't buy one, however I will put an honest opinion out there on what experience I have had.
That is one that I would love to hear a proper explanation of. It reads that ice vehicles have much lower emissions to manufacture. Puzzled how it changes after 90k. Based on multiple assumptions…I assume Lets now look at ‘average’ electricity production globally, and how clean it is. The overlooked factor here is that electricity is only clean at point of use. An aside, tyre wear I have read is 20% faster. So many factors. So little clarity. Too many politicians and vested interests. Should we also look at recycling at end of life? I suspect that one is being glossed over/ignored.
I presume that by 90k the ice car has put out enough pollutants to equal the manufacturing of the ev. Windfarms and solar are the biggest con, look what happens to them when they reach the end of use, landfill.
I do 500-1200 miles a week for work on an EV, just charge at home overnight and at a services if on a 300mile plus run. Most I have done in a day was about 420 miles. That was a full charge overnight and thirty minute charge which fitted in with a piss and sandwich stop. Then charged again overnight when I got home. We have a 100% EV fleet and many don’t have home chargers so either use public network or charge at work (for free). It still doesn’t work for everyone but works for a lot more people than maybe think it would. I know a colleague just uses the fast charger when they go the local Sainsbury’s for example. Very rural locations are different but improving week on week, I grabbed a cheeky lunchtime charge at the co-op in Cleobury Mortimer yesterday for example. At the moment cheap second hand EVs aren’t around but that will change as time goes by. Running costs are ridiculously cheap - £85 for a main dealer service! £4 charge overnight gets me 300 miles. Bikes are a totally different matter though……….
Your fuel per mile cost is very low in a EV. Your servicing is cheap too. But this is not your running cost imo. The depreciation on the vehicles is insane, and thats probably due to the battery life being 10 years and the car becoming scrap. Factor in 100% car value divided by 10 years, add electricity & service (including extra tyres and brakes due to weight) and then tell me its still cheap? And thats without a yet to materialise battery disposal fee due to them being toxic as hell and a colossal fire hazard...
best coverage in the uk with nearly twice as many per head of the population than south of the boarder as of late 2023. many are free and powered by renewables wind and tidal. but still not nearly enough should there be a big jump in EV sales. hold back for hydrogen if you can.
In response to your cable point, it's not just a few metres of cable, is it? As has been said, the National Grid & a lot of the cabling would require upgrading to meet the requirements if every vehicle was electric. And for it to work, people need access to chargers; the amount of on street parking round my way suggests that's going to be a bit of an issue. As to you not being upset, I didn't suggest you were; I quoted someone else in the response. And if it works for you that's fine. However there are far too many out there who will fail to acknowledge any potential downsides or shortcomings in EVs; they will trumpet about how their car doesn't put out any emissions, conveniently ignoring the fact that the set up of the infrastructure & the generation of the electricity causes emissions; that the previously mentioned infrastructure is in its infancy and there are no guarantees as to what it will end up being; who completely ignore the fact that the EV creates far more emissions in manufacture than the ICE equivalent (how does China generate their electricity?); who gloss over the fact that for an equivalent vehicle the EV tends to be considerably more expensive than its ICE equivalent; and that there are no guarantees about the longevity of the EV. Those are who I refer to as the EVangelists. If you are happy to concede it's not for everyone then that description doesn't apply to you. For me, it doesn't work.
I work with quite a few, incl in my team who manage resilience, worked at N Grid and all say the same: the infra simply can’t take it never mind the sheer volume that will be needed. We seriously looked at it when replacing wife’s mini clubman. We could not find a car that would comfortably, in all conditions, give confidence of a 200 mile trip without spending 50+k. Which of course, I read somewhere, will now attract the surcharge for expensive cars for tax and be hundred if not 1000 pa tax. Be interesting to know how the Tesla etc service model works in their dealerships
