Jeremy Browne, a Liberal Democrat, said there needs to be a national debate about whether the state should step in to protect young women from having the veil “imposed” on them. But what about those Muslim women who want to wear a veil in public ?
i'm all for it - if a woman doesn't want to wear one, but not sure the Country could afford it just now :- France's Controversial Burqa Ban Comes Into Force, but Will It Just Heighten Social Tensions? | TIME.com
When you say a veil are you referring to a full face covering, eyes only visible, or entire face visible but hair covered?
Yes full veil banned. Open faced no need to ban IMO if that becomes a problem then may I suggest putting your children in a specialist school that tailors for your beliefs. if not, then live with it its a fairly radical belief and IMO can be off putting for many other people as such I can't see how it'll help the class room. Whether that's right or wrong it is how it is.
As far as I'm aware Hoodies are banned are they not? Or at least hood down I would expect. And so they should be. this is the problem, if its such a strong religious belief then maybe the parents need to start considering schooling that caters for such specific needs instead of crying racism or human rights. If no schools exist for such needs then they need to get together and look at funding to create them, just like many other groups of people have done over the years. you can't go through life expecting everybody to bend over backwards for you no matter what belief YOU decided to take on.
a huge 'Here Here' from me ^ but there is a certain sector in the U.K. who appear to be slowly achieving that described in your last sentence.
A school is one thing. What's a public place? The street? Just to clarify the question, is it that women with full fact coverings (I assume that allows the eyes to see out, not the Afghan burka) should be banned from wearing them in public?
Debate on R2 now, imam saying its nothing to do with religion, the koran makes no reference to it, its a way of controlling women in a society and should be banned from public places, although context wise they are talking in court where they are defendant. The live and live in me says let it go, who cares?! And who cares if someone wears a hoody?! Is restricting these no more than another erosion of our civil liberties, a country so free you need permission to protest and where two people constitute a gang and can be dispersed? But we need to be mindful this is often worn by women who are taught and indoctrinated to take it as 'choice' and banning will essentially look like a restriction of choice
The burka originated in Afghanistan I believe, and is not a historic form of dress in the Muslim community. It is from the more extreme side of the Muslim community. I, for one would like to see it banned in public and schools. Why should it be allowed in a school, but a teacher refusing to remove her crucifix necklace faces disciplinary action? from a security point of view, there are many cases where this form of dress has been used to commit acts against uk forces and in the follow up the perpetrator has turned out to be male.
Exactly bradders. Some of the media, and politicians, are presenting this as liberating Muslim women from the oppression of men. But do they want to be freed and should society force them to cast off their veil. Victoria Coren Mitchell sums it up nicely My veil epiphany | Victoria Coren Mitchell | Comment is free | The Observer
I object to the word "veil". The topic under debate is the wearing of face masks. A veil is something worn by brides at their weddings, and bee-keepers at work - a transparent, sheer cloth which allows people to see the wearer's face. A face mask is an opaque covering worn to prevent people seeing the wearer's face, like a chainsaw mask, a balaclava, or a burqa. Calling Islamic face-coverings "veils" seems to be a cheap attempt to distort the argument. On the whole I am in favour of people having freedom to wear whatever clothing they like in the street, including ridiculous religious hats. This serves a useful purpose, since it makes it easier to identify raving nutcases. The position is rather different in places of work, schools, hospitals, banks, army barracks, and other shared places. Employers are entitled to expect employees to follow a uniform code, and customers are entitled to be treated equally without discrimination. People wear face masks to be frightening, worrying, intimidating and upsetting to other people, and to evade security precautions; they may be terrorists or robbers, or want to look as if they are. Those in charge of shared spaces should be entitled to ban the wearing of face masks in those spaces. Whether the face mask is worn for allegedly religious reasons or other reasons is of no relevance at all. It seems to me a very simple, straightforward issue.
But if a school has a no hats or head wear policy should it be relaxed on religious grounds to include the entire face visible but hair covered ?
I take your point re the use of the word veil. So those in charge of shared spaces get to choose and you wouldn't include a street in that definition ?
I'm sure we've had this debate before - but hey, let's have it again! 1. Ban veils? Slippery slope. You will then find yourself banned for keeping your helmet on in a public place, or not taking your balaclava off. Or maybe just wearing a scarf over your face when it's cold or wearing one of these: 2. Why ban them? Because you don't like them? The whole brilliance of the UK is its tolerance. If it's not doing any real harm, you have to let people get on with the lives they want to live. 3. Kids are always indoctrinated. Just look at the Prostestant/Catholic thing that still goes on in NI - which, lest we forget, is part of the UK. Is it the state's place to meddle in these things? It might encourage different behaviours (mixed schools blah blah) but legislation? 4. I would ban full face coverings in schools (give the kids a chance) and allow employers to be able to discriminate against them (i.e., you might not want your staff to be wearing full face veils serving customers or even interacting with other team members and should be allowed to say so). But adults should be able to do what they want with their private lives.
So was the judge right the other day to allow a Muslim woman's face to remain hidden and accept the testimony of a female court official that the witness was who she said she was ? Should I be allowed to demand the same privilege ?
