Muslim: I’m a moderate Muslim and I’m offended by your comments about my religion. Atheist: Then you’re not moderate enough.
Good concise point Loz. If the Burka really is the biggest thing we can find to be afraid of, clearly the country cant really be 'on its knees' to quite the extent the Daily Fail likes to claim it is. I've noticed this before, People like to veil (see what I did there) racism as patriotism then keep describing the country as being on its knees, and we need to 'wake up' as if they somehow have some sort of superior sight or superior knowledge, when in fact they are the ones who need to wake up themselves. A true Patriot would welcome diversity in our country as its proof that the society is secure open and a desirable place to live and work. A country full of people of one race and religion screams 'this place is an unsuccessful shirt hole that no one else ever wants to come to' the best sign of success is 'look how good our country is, everyone gets on, and is free to be themselves here' People need to realign their thinking. 1913 opinions have no place in 2013 society. Until the Burka represents an actual problem, its up to the muslim world to decide if its an outdated and unacceptable practice. I suspect it will eventually die out of its own accord, as muslim thinking is evolving (look at how open places like Dubai are to things like alcohol and exposed skin) change takes time.
It seems to me that there are many options between the French extreme of a ban in public places, and the "do nothing and have endless scenarios to argue about" situation that we have at present. This could include: - Clarifying what the rules are when in a retail or customer-service situation. I don't want the bother of taking off my helmet at a petrol station so I simply avoid those that demand this. I hope that they would apply the same rule to anyone wearing any other type of full-face mask but I've no idea what the legal position is. - Rules about what is to be done in courts, at borders, or in other "security" situations. This stuff should not be made up on the fly by judges. - Employers and employees rights. That would be the right way to deal with questions like "should state employees in public-facing situations be allowed to cover their faces?". If I were running a business which required interaction with the public I'd want to know where I stood with regard to this. I think this one has been worked to death though - would anyone like to debate the rights and wrongs of banning smoking in prisons?
Can anyone tell me how immigration in the UK works? I am interested to know under what mechanisms London fills up with Russians, Africans, Chinese etc etc. I understand the arrival of people from EU countries, but I don't understand the arrival of people from other places. Are they students, asylum seekers, illegal immigrants? Or are there agreements with places like Nigeria and Somalia that their nationals can come and live in the UK? Can overseas students stay on once they have finished their courses? Can any residents of Hong Kong elect domicile in the UK? Don't read anything xenophobic into this question. I am just interested to know. It's quite ironic in some respects as border control is far stricter in the UK than anywhere else on the continent, where it no longer seems to exist at all.
No phil, our progressive liberalism is being used against us. I suggest you google Sharia Law in Britain.
In answer to Glidd's question. Talking to a young Nigerian engineer, employed here legally, he said that the whole system is riddled with opportunities for abuse.
This is a very complex question, full of surprises. As a onetime manager of the UK Immigration Appeal Tribunal I have some thoughts to contribute, but may I suggest a separate thread, rather than muddling this "face masks" poll with it?
A rolled up carpet......someone locked inside a Royal Mail post box that has been painted black by vandals.....a hirsute woman in her suit...etc.
I read that the voters of Canton Ticino, Switzerland have just approved a measure banning face masks, by a large majority, and the Netherlands is considering following France, Belgium, and Barcelona in introducing similar measures. It seems this will probably sweep Europe over the next few years in the same way as same-sex marriage has, and for the same reasons.
