They might not get the Porsche but they will get the council house. Assuming an even distribution 50% of kids are of above average intelligence are far from dim and know exactly how the system works. Uneducated in the conventional sense they may be but they probably know many things that you or I don't.
That is spot on. You either have lots of new little white Brits, or you have more immigrants with a different culture to assimilate. Your choice. I hope that doesn't sound racist. But you have to be aware that if you want a Britain with a certain culture, then it comes with a certain set of choices. If you want a global multicultural society, such that the denizens of Cornwall now reply to the name Mohammed, then you adopt other choices. Or you can go the Japanese route and accept no immigration and hope that robots are going to save the day.
Every human society throughout history depends on the work of the rising generation to support their ageing predecessors, and needs a supply of fresh blood to replace the dying old blood. That is the way society works. What does calling that a Ponzi scheme mean? It seems to be an attempt to smear an ordinary, inevitable reality by labelling it with the name of a famous financial fraud. Really helpful!
It was implicit in johnv's post that he was referencing singletons without any progeny when he mentioned the ponzi scheme. You've erroneously conflated two different issues, Peter. Shame on you.
Everyone who lives to grow old then depends on youngsters to look after them. That is so regardless if you have any progeny or not, and regardless if you are rich or poor. So it is all one issue, not two, is it not?
Porsche? Independant? Mail? You're showing yourself up as middle class bradders. Perhaps you'd like me to show you some of the more 'council' parts of the country. The parts where they claim benefits but still go to work, where they steal their 501s and Jimmy Choos as well as their groceries. I know plenty of people like this. Perhaps you're too far removed...
Yup .... I hear of 17 year old girls who's career choice is ... Get pregnant get free house and get it decorated and furnished. Oh yes get a dog ... If you have a dog you get extra money .!!! Why do you think we have such a staffy problem ??? So you feed the dog cheap and keep rest of money gets you another box of fags.if it needs vets bills its ok Blue cross pays for it! Or dump it! That's how it works ... Sadly I know several girls like this and been well planned in advance .. They are not thick one gets it the rest follow... Another chap I know stops taking his medicine before his disability medical . He can ride a bike and get about fine when on meds.. He laughs about it... Thinks its great ! He said to me " why should I work? " Get my rent paid get most of my bills paid. Owns two bikes and a car . Best one was he complained about his 50 something inch plasma had arrived and they brought the wrong wall bracket so he couldn't watch it!!! Really ?? I asked how the hell could he buy that?? He said the state paid for it! Oh also got a free family holiday !! He can work .. He choses to lie and sit on his arse.... Trouble is kids see this and think its acceptable !! ... There's some great kids out there but sadly a lot of lazy gits or ones who get pregnant on purpose .. Oh then when 1st one hits school age they are told to go back to work part time now !! So what do they do .. 1st one hits 4 .. They have another and so on. I see it around me .... And by my work and know of kids that plan this ... They need to do what they used to years back stick you in a women's shelter or half way house so its not glamorous and its not fun but it is a roof over your head for a bit. If your genuine you do it and get on with it . If word got round to young kids right new rule change you won't get a house / flat straight away you have to live in a half way house .. That would soon scare them enough to think it over ! Also they get decent sex education and life skills at school now regardless of school is in the curriculum so there is NO excuse. Accidents happen I understand but here you have little gangs of mates who one after the other will get pregnant .. Get their mum to look after the baby as well. Get a house and latest gear and keep it up for years. It's no myth .. I see it with kids I know!! Or sadder then that child after child goes into care and they are warned no more children .. You guessed it they keep going. Poor kids don't have a hope with cretins for parents... I have no family to step in and help me .. It's hard work and lonely I work have a shitty house because my ex lives in our old house. But it's dry and warm but its not home They are fine because they all have kids and most of them your find have big tight knit families and Mum / grandmother steps in all the time ! I don't care if I sound harsh.. It's been going on started big time in late 80s.. When I was at school you had girls who' knew the system back then. Never worked til they had to at about 40. They got their houses and have now sold them and made a mint ! It's a joke .. They have just clamped down on housing benefit for under 25s. Unless you have a dependant . So guess what ! More of them are at it ! And unless something's done those babies will grow up in that culture and so on and on! Where I come from in South London jeez it's a joke !
Working class background. Single parent upbringing. Sister has 5 kids, no job nor does her partner (bad back ), brother never worked as disabled, close uncle doesn't work (bad hip, back and god knows what else ) other uncle almost never worked, officially, and been on the sick with his missus, German and on the sick, for at least the last 20 years, mum hardly worked ever also been on the sick as long as I can remember. So I'd say I'm fairly qualified being around a lot who live in council and on the dole. Do they have 'luxuries' like sky etc? Some do. Do they have money coming from their ears and no cash worries as you lot seem to think? Do they fuck. Many choose it as a lifestyle, bum around for ever and feel the world owes them something. Lazy? Yep. Ignorant? Yep. Easy luxury life? Hardly.
You've not worked in a retirement/care home, have you Pete? But, to address your point, as long as people keep having children, old people will have someone responsible for looking after them. The point is though, if the average age of a population reaches a certain point, the cost of looking after the elderly will outstrip the ability of the younger generations to meet it. This could well be a valid description of a ponzi scheme, but you knew that anyway.
You do indeed. You can also get a TV allowance if you ask nicely. You're the one that mentioned money bradders, no-one else.
How do you live without money Fig? It starts with '..and a free council house' them moves on to '...an they smoke and drink' quickly moves on to '..and Sky tv, big plasma and all the consoles!' And finally 'more cash in their pocket than me and I do 103 hrs work a week' been...t-shirt...done...
A Ponzi scheme is a fraud artificially concocted and based wholly on lies and deceit from its inception. The inventor of the scheme sets it up for the sole purpose of deceiving and defrauding everybody. What is under discussion here is a fundamental part of the way all human societies work: it is that every human society throughout history depends on the work of the rising generation to support their ageing predecessors, and needs a supply of fresh blood to replace the dying old blood. This fact is true, it is well-known to everybody, and indeed is beyond dispute. I have pointed out that there is not the slightest resemblance between the two things, but it seems that you are keen to insist otherwise. So go ahead, surprise us all. Whether I have or have not worked in a retirement home has not the slightest relevance to the subject under discussion, has it? So you dragging it in appears to be just throwing sand in the eyes.
Exactly - the deficit is more than 6% of GDP which unfortunately puts us in the same league as Greece, Portugal, etc. Interestingly (bearing in mind the current government chaos there) Italy has a considerably lower deficit, although it's total national debt is greater at more than 125% of GDP (not that ours is not getting dangerously large rather quickly - already over 90%...due to our high deficit). What gets my goat is when politicians, who should know better, misrepresent things by talking of "paying down the deficit" - when they mean merely reducing the deficit, a bit, with no chance of actually paying off any debt for years now.
You're right. The total debt accumulated down the years is often muddled with the deficit in the current year, by journalists, commentators, politicians, and anybody with an axe to grind. Have you noticed what Japan's accumulated debt is? And we think we've got problems! By the way, never forget that somebody's debt is somebody else's asset. It's only bad debts which are not also assets.
metaphor - a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” or "An ageing population with an unserviceable pensions system is a sort of ponzi scheme. Strictly linear thinking is cute, but not terribly conducive to debate. It tends to squash real discussion and promote pedantry (however misplaced it may be). What was actually being discussed was the idea that singletons not having children means essentially that they paying into a state pension scheme resembles a ponzi scheme. You mutated the argument into a discussion regarding the way society, civilisation and populations are born, grow old and die. I don't think anyone is arguing against this, but feel free to win that particular battle. The surprising thing is that you saw what johnv wrote and conflated it into a related, but not terribly relevant, counter-argument. Compare this to a hypothetical discussion about the use of aluminium in vehicle construction, the pro's and con's - you would step in and contradict all, stating that not all metals are aluminium. Related, accurate but not relevant. The sand is there so that you would wipe your eyes clear. The fact is, care the older generation once they have fulfilled their quota of work concerns pensions, concerns health care and concerns how we as a society treat our elderly. The fact that I threw this into the discussion shouldn't faze you - you are very adept at side-swiping issues and opening them up into new directions. Did you not enjoy my own little conflation?
Thanks, this is most helpful. In future, whenever you put forward some unsustainable line of argument in a post, readers can assume that you only meant it as a metaphor so there is no need to take it literally or take the trouble to refute it.
